96 o2 sensors can't get out

[wldleak]

I have a 96 3.0 with 192k on it. Never changed the o2's. Every time I travel long distance and after the first fill up the engine light goes on. The codes always refer to o2 system. I recently decided its time to replace o2"s. Broke tool tring to get them out, took it to a mechanic and he could not get them out. Also while it was up on the lift my cats rattled as if they were bad. Not spending the money on a new exhaust w/ cats, not worth it. I was told I could rod out the cats and the exhaust would'nt plug up. The van runs great with no oil leaks and I just went to FLorida and back over 2k miles and no problems. Avg 17mpg pulling fishing boat on the way down and 21mpg w/out boat on the way back. Any suggestions? would like to milk this vehicle out for all she worth. I did a temp test at mufler and it was 125F in and 120F out, the resonator was 165F in and 125F out. ( was told if the temp is different, may be plugged up)

[tomj76]

You can get a special O2 socket, which might help. Otherwise I recommend the old standbys.... heat and hammer. I've removed mine with an open end wrench hit with a hammer to break it loose. However, sometime exhaust componets can reach a state where they need to be heated cherry red to get them to come loose. I had that problem on the flange bolts the connect the y-pipe to the exhaust pipe isolator.

[busboy4]

HI
You could try heating them, however our moderator will chime in I'm sure and tell you about twisting the sensor right out of the CAT leaving a hole - due to corrosion. So you might be better leaving well enough alone. As to your rattling CAT, you can go to Home Depot or similar and get a large hose clamp (like 10" diameter) in the plumbing section. You can wrap it around the CAT and crank it down to hold the heat shield secure. Here is a photo on Wiswind's site:

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1291...11220610RKaAZl

Good Luck

[tripletdaddy]

Are you getting codes that say you need to replace your o2 sensors? I ask because I have read hear countless times that they generally don't go bad, especially more than one at a time. And if you do get o2 type codes be careful of what it is really saying. It may say o2 sensor but really means that the sensor is detecting a problem upstream and not telling you to change them. I may be recalling things from the Taurus forum too, but they share identical enough systems and parts. What are the code numbers you are getting? Also try searching for o2 sensors here and the Taurus forum to see what I'm talking about.

The only thing I can add for removing them, if after heating them doesn't do it, put water in a rag or ice on it right after heating it to rapidly cool it, but try not to cool the pipe because you want to keep that hot. Try it more than once. Expanding and contracting the metal will hopefully get the bond to break.

[northern piper]

I too second the heat until cherry red and then quench. First thing, a propane torch won't heat the parts hot enough; you'll need oxy-acetelyene. Regarding the quench liquid, I've used cold water and also PB blaster right out of the can. The PB works as it can be sprayed more accurately and really wicks its way into the threads. The right tool for the sensor also is a big help. There are special sockets for the removal which undoubtably you know about.

Piper

[CnlK]

I've just had some success removing an O2 sensor by using a product called CRC Freeze Off Super Penetrant. Sprayed it, let set overnight, started engine and let exhaust heat up, shut engine down and sprayed again. This thermal contraction may help break the bond. Also a MAPP gas torch will generate high heat, a typical propane torch tip is not rated for MAPP gas, make sure you have the right one.

[wldleak]

Thanks for all your responses. I did break the speacial O2 socket, but did not have the proper heat available, may try it. Bottom line, I just got the codes read, PO131, PO136, PO156 & P1131. Is it necessary to replace O2's? Is ther a test to determine if one or all of the four are bad? Any Other suggestions, based on the current code defaults?

[wldleak]

Thanks for all you responses. I did use the spacial O2 socket and broke it, but did not access to mapp or Acetylene. Bottom line, do the O2 sensors need to be replaced if you have over 100k miles? Is there a definitive test to determine if any or all 4 are bad? I just had the most recent codes read and they are PO131, PO136, PO156 & P1131. What upstream test could I do to detrermine the cause of the codes tripping?

[wiswind]

I am guesing that the wires to the oxygen sensors has been carefully inspected.
Also, you do not mention coolant usage......as coolant can take out the oxygen sensors......as well as the bearings inside the engine, if it gets into the oil.

I soaked my the threads of the oxygen sensors with PB-Blaster a couple days before I attempted to remove them.
If you have the same "Y" pipe that I do on my '96 3.8L, the rear most converter has the "downstream sensor mounted into the body of the catalytic converter.....and the thin metal will not stand up to any punishment.

As mentioned above, straps (overgrown hose clamps) will quiet the rattling if the cause is loose heat shields on the converters.
In my case, it was the internals......which is why you see pictures of my "Y" pipe replacement.
Now, for my '96 3.8L, the OEM "Y" pipe lists at about $1600....and the cheapest that I could find it online was about $1200.
I got a Walker "direct fit" for under $400.....and it has been in place for about 3 years.

I just looked up the catalytic converter for the 3.0L at Millennium Ford.....seems that the 3.0L uses a different part than the 3.8L......
List is just over $2000, and they have it for $1485.90
Expensive.
They did not make near as many 3.0L windstars.....which is most likely why the price for unique parts is higher.


For oxygen Sensors......
I would get the genuine Motorcraft brand.
They may be made by Bosch (not sure), but they are made to Motorcraft specifications.
At rock auto
Front is $54.79 each
Rear is $52.79 each
They list 2 different Bosch....don't know the difference between them.....maybe lead length?

Rock auto does not seem to list the catalytic converter for the 3.0L...but it is about $350 for the 3.8L....
They have a note that the Walker converter is NOT legal for OBDII vehicles in CA.
But FORD lists a separate converter for CA