PTE 50 trim or 56 trim?

[TalonEclipseMixGsx]

Well i made a mistake on the title, its supposed to be a 50 trim or 56 trim. Ok so I had my mind made up about the PTE 50 trim until today when my buddy told me he was ditching his 56 trim for a GT35R. Now, my goal of 400whp hasn't changed, but if i can get a 5 month old turbo for a couple dollars less than a brand new 50 trim, IMO its worth it.

However, i know the spool time on the scm61(56 trim) will be a good bit more than the scm5031E(50 trim). But turbo lag is only in first gear, when racing from a stop of course. Anyway, i guess ill be able to run less boost with the sc61 than the sc50 to achieve my HP goal, with more lag.

Anyway, I thought i would ask everybody elses opinion on this situation, before i went making my decision.

[Thor06]

I'd say go for it for sure dude. Saving a couple hundred, helping a buddy, and having a little extra head room for your setup is definately worth it IMO.

[TalonEclipseMixGsx]

Well he said its mine for 650. The turbo didnt originally come with the internal wastegate, so he had to pay another 100 for that i believe. I guess thats some advice for anybody looking at getting a PTE turbo. So theres no doubt that 1000 worth of parts for 650 is a good deal. For a turbo rated at 630 hp, I don't see it being very hard to get 400hp out of it.

He said he reached full boost by around 4K RPMS, which i guess isn't a terrible jump from my 3400 rpm spool time now, but still significant. He also said I'd be limiting myself by running the stock 2G MAF. What do you guys think?

[defiancy]

Originally Posted by TalonEclipseMixGsx

Well he said its mine for 650. The turbo didnt originally come with the internal wastegate, so he had to pay another 100 for that i believe. I guess thats some advice for anybody looking at getting a PTE turbo. So theres no doubt that 1000 worth of parts for 650 is a good deal. For a turbo rated at 630 hp, I don't see it being very hard to get 400hp out of it.

He said he reached full boost by around 4K RPMS, which i guess isn't a terrible jump from my 3400 rpm spool time now, but still significant. He also said I'd be limiting myself by running the stock 2G MAF. What do you guys think?

Well I think you should look at it like this.

If 400 hp is your goal, and a 50 trims will meet that goal, do you see yourself ever going further than that?

If you think you are going to want to mod further than I would say go with the 56 trim. If you aren't, than I would say go with the 50 trim. The 50 trim in my opinion is the perfect size for a non stroker motor.

I would also like to mention that I feel the 50 trim is a much more streetable turbo than the 56 trim. I would think you would have to do a bit more tuning with the 56 compared to the 50.

But both are great choices, and would make a fine addition to your car.

[TalonEclipseMixGsx]

Well, as for this car, no i don't see myself going any further than 400hp. But, i had planned on buying a 1g AWD in the near future and going all out on that. I figured I'd hang on to the E316G, and put it back in the 2G once i got my project car, and throw the 56 trim into the 1G and try to get as much as i can out of it. It just sounds like such a good deal to me that it'd be hard to pass up. I looked at the pros and cons of it and the only downside I can see is just like you said, it's not a very streetable turbo. But in the long run, it won't be permanent for the 2G. Thanks for your input.

[steviek]

go with your friends turbo man

[TalonEclipseMixGsx]

Yeah I've been giving this alot of thought the last few days. I'm almost definately sure that I'm going to get it. I'm not going to be to thrilled about the lag time, but I guess you have to make sacrifices when trying to make more power. I guess on the bright side if I'm not satisfied, then i can throw the E316G back on, and since ill have all of my fuel and ecu mods, ill be able to max that beast out. Of course, with all stock internals, I'll still need to be careful how far i push it.

Also, I've been told that the stock 2g MAS will limit my power. I guess as you get to a higher airflow the metered air will become distorted somehow, and not function properly. Is it true? and if so, is there any other options besides the GM MAFT and translator, and DSM link. Ill be running the keydiver with the no fuel cut option, but I im not sure if that will be enough.

[Thor06]

Ok, here comes Thor's two cents again. For one, I would like to say that I doubt that turbo will be any less streetable than a 50 trim. If anything, I would say its almost going to be more streetable because you wont have to boost the fuck out of the thing to get 400 hp. In my eyes, 50 trims are great street turbos but 35R's behave well on a 2.0 street car as well... thats the route I would go if I was to make a complete ass tearer. Also, the spool tim difference is like 200 rpms, also a pretty negligible difference. I would also be careful on that 190 and 550's that a lot more air to be flowing and I would personally make for damn sure to keep an eye on how much air you're flowing and to not make your IDC's go over 85%.

And yes, the 2g MAF will limit you at some point, but I am sorta hard pressed to believe its at 400 hp. A GM MAFT would be the way I would go (and you dont need DSMlink to run it) but I think with an AEM EMS or DSMlink you can run a MAP setup as well.

Anyway, good luck on it but just be careful, hanging a big turbo off your motor with a tuning/fuel system like that and a stock bottom end seems like playing with matches in a gas station if you know what I mean .

[TalonEclipseMixGsx]

Originally Posted by Thor06

Anyway, good luck on it but just be careful, hanging a big turbo off your motor with a tuning/fuel system like that and a stock bottom end seems like playing with matches in a gas station if you know what I mean .

Oh I hear you on that one. I know the stock 7 bolts aren't as good as the 6 bolts, but i want the most and safest power I can get out of it. That's why I'm sticking with the 400 hp goal. I've got a walbro 255 and some 720s sitting out in the garage, along with a socketed eprom with the 720cc injector compensation. I should be pretty good to go on the fuel and tuning side of it.

Anyway, next time i see my buddy I'll tell him im gettin it for sure. Thanks for everybodys opinions and advice.

[kjewer1]

Trying to make 400 whp on a 500hp and 650 hp turbo will take the same boost to achieve. The larger hotside on the 61 will help a little, but it's not a drastic change at low power levels. I wouldn't base the decision solely on that. The idea that you'll use more of its potential later on a bigger setup on the 1g is more compelling.

I'm not a big fan of the PTE turbos. I'm guessing your friend isn't either, since he's going to a full garret version of the same turbo by the sound of things (the "56 trim" wheel is the GT35R wheel).

The 35R sized turbos are the largest I think I'd go on a 2 liter daily driver project. With a TDO6H mitsu hotside I had 25 psi by 4400 rpm. For comparison the same turbo reached 25 psi at 3700 rpm on the stroker. Certainly liveable on a 2 liter, but it takes a good deal of boost to make good use of that compressor wheel.

At 450-500 whp I'd definitely give the nod to the 56 trim, since the 50 trim will be maxed out, if you can even get it there. At only 400 whp I can say from personal experience that the 50 trim will ET better than the 56 trim at the track. A turbo that lags more than another but makes no more power (because you aren't using all of it's potential in this case) will never perform better than the smaller one. But it's certainly something you can live with in the meantime before the bigger setup, as long as you're aware of it.

[TalonEclipseMixGsx]

I misunderstood my buddy. He isn't going with the GT35R, he's going with the FP3065. I guess he wants to spool a little bit earlier.

Thanks for the insight. I was under the impression that since it was a bigger turbo it would have taken less boost to make the power. Learn somthing new every day. From what you said about your TDO6H boosting fully by 4400 rpm, I guess I will be somewhere in that area? I'm only planning on maybe 20-22psi.

Is there any particular reason why you're not a fan of PTE turbos?

[kjewer1]

Originally Posted by TalonEclipseMixGsx

I misunderstood my buddy. He isn't going with the GT35R, he's going with the FP3065. I guess he wants to spool a little bit earlier.

That makes sense. Same compressor wheel still, but BT30R hot side.

Thanks for the insight. I was under the impression that since it was a bigger turbo it would have taken less boost to make the power. Learn somthing new every day. From what you said about your TDO6H boosting fully by 4400 rpm, I guess I will be somewhere in that area? I'm only planning on maybe 20-22psi.

The general theory is certainly correct, but in practice it just does add up to anything noticeable when both turbos are within their normal operating range. If you start to max out one turbo the difference between the power to boost level ratio will start to open up. I would expect similar spool up, yes. The SCM61 IIRC uses the GT turbine wheel, which flows more, but spools faster. It's a wash, roughly, IIRC, but with better efficiency/power.

Is there any particular reason why you're not a fan of PTE turbos?

Unusually high frequency of thrust bearing failures. If this turbo was on your buddy's car for some time and hasn't failed, I wouldn't worry about it; he probably got a good one.

[TalonEclipseMixGsx]

Well that beast is coming out of his car, and over to my garage tomorrow. I still have all of the fuel mods to install, but hopefully it will all be installed by this weekend. Pictures, and my first impression of it will be posted as soon as i do this. Thanks again for everybodys advice.