quick starter question

[Mikelb]

As many of you may know... my car is going back together... but I'm in a dilemna... it's dark, cold as hell, and I can't remember how the starter was wired...


from this pic, the positive would be the bottom terminal?!?, and the negative the top?!?... is this right (I really don't wanna have to find out the hard way and buy another starter)...

Thanks

Edit: I realize, on the car, they will be side by side, but looking from the back of the motor, the closest(bottom in the diagram) will be the positive, right?

[Mikelb]

from: http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troub.../aa080203c.htm

In this electrical diagram we can see the path the power takes to get from the battery to the starter motor. Power comes in from the battery and through the starter fuse. Power then goes through the ignition switch to the Neutral Safety Switch (Park/Neutral Position Switch) if it is an automatic transmission or to the Clutch Starter Switch if it is a manual transmission. And from there it travels to the starter solenoid. So you can see a malfunction in any one of these parts will cause a "No Crank" condition.
When the ignition switch is moved to the START position, battery voltage is applied to the starter solenoid. Both solenoid windings are energized. The circuit through the pull-in winding is completed to ground through the starter motor.
The windings work together magnetically to pull in and hold in the plunger. The plunger moves the shift lever. This action causes the starter drive assembly to rotate and engage the flywheel ring gear on the engine.
At the same time, the plunger also closes the solenoid switch contacts in the starter solenoid. Full battery voltage is applied directly to the starter motor and it cranks the engine.
As soon as the solenoid switch contacts close, voltage is no longer applied through the pull-in windings, since battery voltage is applied to both ends of the windings. The hold-in winding remains energized, and its magnetic field is strong enough to hold the plunger, shift lever, and drive assembly solenoid switch contacts in place to continue cranking the engine.
When the ignition switch is released from the START position, battery voltage is removed from the junction of the two windings. Voltage is applied from the motor contacts through both windings to ground at the end of the hold-in windings.
However, the voltage applied to the pull-in winding is now opposing the voltage applied when the winding was first energized. The magnetic fields of the pull-in and hold-in windings now oppose one another. This action of the windings, with the help of the return spring, causes the starter drive assembly to disengage and solenoid switch contacts to open simultaneously. As soon as the contacts open, the starter circuit is turned off.

I Revise my previous thoughts, based on this diagram. With this diagram, I believe the terminal closest to the motor, would be the positive... Anyone else know if this is right?


Edit: Am I looking at this wrong?!? I have seen a few other starter solenoids, and one of those terminals is just the connection to the starter... and the other the battery... is that right?!?

[Mikelb]

ok, got that figured out, one of those terminals (the one closest to motor) has a wire that goes to the starter motor... the other is for the positive...

I have noticed that a lot of sensor wires have broken and are in dire need of repair... one being on the starter wire... it's this connector, does anyone know what it is?!?



I'm also having problems starting, but have figured out that's most likely b/c the ECT sensor wire has broken... that will be fixed with a simple spade terminal...

[Mikelb]

Any help you guys?!?

My car is turning over now, but it won't start... I can hear the fuel pump, and starter, and see the cam gears turning... I feel like there's no spark... any sensors I coulda left unplugged?!?

[Mikelb]

Lots of help you guys are...

I tracked down that connector... it's for the backup lights...
So, with those wires just hanging (they also spark if they touch), would that cause the car to not start?!?

(Oh, btw, I have spark, b/l I hear the fuel pump... and the car's turning over)...

What now?!? plz help...

[Talon69]

Originally Posted by Mikelb

Lots of help you guys are...

I tracked down that connector... it's for the backup lights...
So, with those wires just hanging (they also spark if they touch), would that cause the car to not start?!?

(Oh, btw, I have spark, b/l I hear the fuel pump... and the car's turning over)...

What now?!? plz help...

No that would not cause the car not to start, it would eventually blow the fuse for the back up lights thats about it.

Also have you actually checked for spark? Why i ask is because you said it feels like its not sparking.

And you double checked the entire harness to make sure everything is plugged in?

[Mikelb]

yeah, I checked for spark on the first cylinder, I have spark... I might check for fuel today, but I'm almost certain that what I hear is the fuel pump...

[Talon69]

Just because you here the pump does not mean your getting fuel. Could be plugged somewhere. Pull the line off the fuel rail and put it in a bottle then turn it over and see what happens.

[gthompson97]

Just go borrow a fuel pressure gauge and check it that way. Alot easier and then you'll know if you're getting the correct pressure.

[Mikelb]

damn... no, it's not fuel pressure... figured that one out...

I changed out the ECU... I got a fire or two outta the new one...

but damn, I was at the end of the rope, even played with the CAS(?) a little...

I took off the coil pack, and tested them and the primary coils are out of wack... like 1.13 ohms, (supposed to be .68-.8 or something)...

the secondary was fine... a/b 13k ohms...

is there any way to repair the coil pack ???

how can I test the transistor pack???

I'm pretty sure I've found the problem though... my friend is gonna sell me a new OEM (Straight from Mitsu) for $175...

Edit: NM, (I had posted an edit before thinking a/b what I was saying)

[gthompson97]

Power Transistor
Connect analog ohmmeter leads between power transistor terminals No. 3 and No. 7. Ohmmeter should indicate no continuity. Using a 1.5-volt dry cell battery, connect positive battery lead to power transistor terminal No. 3 and negative lead to terminal No. 6. See Fig. 8 . When battery is connected, ohmmeter should indicate continuity.

Connect ohmmeter between power transistor terminals No. 1 and No. 3. Ohmmeter should indicate no continuity. Connect dry cell battery positive lead to power transistor terminal No. 2 and negative lead to terminal No. 3. See Fig. 8 . When battery is connected, ohmmeter indicate continuity. Replace power transistor if it does not test as described.

[Mikelb]

will a digital ohmeter work??? (it's all I've got)

[Talon69]

yes it will work just fine

[Mikelb]

damn, I was hoping you'd say it wouldn't...

...

The damn transistor pack is gone too...
WTF caused these parts to go out together?!?... the car ran fine when the transmission shitted...


Edit: Do you reckon the ECU has gone too?!? could that have caused this?!?... I need to get it straight, I've spent over $700 to get it back on the road...

[Mikelb]

I had no answer on the ECU question, and lots of free time...

So I pulled the ECU... I noticed that the caps had been replaced (unfortunately, not socketed )

I noticed a lil corrosion, but I don't think any of it would have been enough to disable the ECU... I did, however, notice that there was a spot on the board... looks like something might have shorted out, there's a burn spot on the top and bottom of the board... the circuit is labeled "C14" (I can't see the "C" on my board, but found a pic of another bad board)...

Can anyone tell me what this circuit runs?!?
Here's a pic to help out...