talon esi runs rough, light spark on 3-4 cylinder??

[lostsoul74]

still cant get this car up to par. as some of you know, it was a 96 talon lowered with rims and a system i scored for 400. Originally it kept turning off once warm, traced it down to a bad crankshaft position sensor. Stayed running after that, but still ran rough, as if only on 2-3 cylinders. changed plugs, found oil in cylinder 4 plug hole, needed new valve cover gasket cause the ring blew, replaced that, still runs rough, did a compression test, all were the same, but i did notice at time of compression test and removing plugs, that when i pulled the wire off the first 2 cyclinders while running, my spark would arch about 2 inches, but not arch on the last 2 cyclinders, you'd have to basically touch the spark plug right to metal to see a spark, swapped wires around and same thing, last 2, so i figured it was a bad distributor, replaced that.... but still same thing, runs rough and hardly any spark going to right cylinders..... whats next on the list????? thanks gents. no i havnt put a meter on it, dont know the specs anyways, it's strictly a obvious visual notice... and when i pull either of the last 2 plug wires, it makes no difference in the way it runs. Thanks. E

[gthompson97]

Give me about 3 hours and I'll get you some directions on how to test the coil pack (distributorless ignition systems on these cars). I don't have the programs on my home computer so I gotta wait till I can get back to my laptop.

[gthompson97]

COIL TEST

Turn ignition off. Disconnect ignition coil electrical connections. Using a DVOM, measure resistance of primary and secondary coil circuits. Measure primary circuit resistance between battery terminal and terminal for cylinders being checked. Resistance should be between .51-.61 (ohms @ 70-80 degrees F) See Fig. 10 .

Measure secondary circuit resistance across coil towers. See Fig. 11 . Resistance should be 11,500-13,500. If resistance is within specification, ignition coil is okay. If resistance is not within specification, replace ignition coil.

Figure 10



Figure 11

[lostsoul74]

huh.... thats very useful, but now according to that, verifies that it's not my coil pack, either one, cause it's 3 and 4 that have little spark, i could understand if it was 1 and 4 or 2 and 3 according to that. well, i guess i'll just have to go back to autozone and have them tell me the code for the check engine light (drove it there today, but they didnt have the proper one for it, gotta go to a different one... or the dude was just too lazy and didnt want to go out in the cold...). Could it be the ECU causing this?? I've replaced the coil pack already, and same problem, and doesnt match up with how it's controlled in the specs above, first thought wires, but when switched around, same thing on same side, so not the wires, even though theyre original and couldnt hurt replacing. All i know is the thing runs like crap, if i pull either 3 or 4 cylinder plug wire off (just one, not both), it makes no difference, revs great, but idles like crap, a little grey smoke, bogs out when comes to a stop at a light, or turn on accessories (heat, ac, etc. etc...) and stalls unless i switch it to neutral as i come to light or turn something on. This was just a winter project, no big deal, figured i'd ask a few questions on forums, find some cheap parts on ebay... and have it good by spring, but my tranny in my work van just shit the bed so this is my emergency backup...... though, i can think of better back ups then a low rider in winter..... lol.... just think of me as doing my part to helping keep the city streets free of snow and ice... the Z racing tires on it arent too fun either...lol. Thanks again man, your always there to help me with this lemon.

[gthompson97]

It could very well be the ECU. Do you know anyone that you could swap ECU's with to see if it fixes the problem? It usually takes like 5 mins to swap them.

[lostsoul74]

sorry, i didnt get that last reply, wasnt emailed to me.... na, dont know anyone can swap with, but i'm a pretty good ebayer, i can probobly grab one for like 10 bucks or somethin. Went to autozone tonight, had them read the code off the talon, it came up a code 300, multiple cylinder misfire. Thinking about it, can a timing belt cause this, or if it's out of timing?? I know when i got it the timing belt cover was missing, and when i changed the valve cover gasket it had different colored gaskets in it and different bolts, meaning someones obviously been in the engine before, i'm woundering if the timing is off??? I know this much, it idles like crap, but revs fine, stalls out when come to stop or turn on something, drives fine when accelerated, but periodicly blows a big cloud of dark grey smoke out the exhaust (when it does it, you can tell without looking in the rear view because you'll press the gass and it sounds odd {like the exhaust is clogged) and lots of dark grey smoke in rear view). it goes away if you let off the gas and take it easy for a second, Does this sound like the symtoms of someone offsetting the timing belt when they put it back on?? or more of an ECU problem?? Thanks thompson, really appreciate it. Eric

[gthompson97]

Yes, timing could cause the car to run like shit, but it can't be off that much, otherwise you'd have a bunch of bent valves and a car that doesn't run at all. Have you done a compression test? See if you can get some compression numbers from that beast.

[lostsoul74]

yes, did a compression test at buddies house last week after i first noticed the major smoke cloud, he did most hte testing, but i remember they were all basically the same, and if i remember right, i think it was like 130 or therabouts, (i was behind the wheel while he tested em, but remember looking at the numbers as i came back out and he was about to disconnect, i remember it was under 150 by the needle, probobly around 130-135), and thats when we noticed the problem with the lack of high spark in cylinders 3 and 4.

[gthompson97]

Well.....hm. That seems pretty low, but I don't think it would be the cause of all the smoke and what not, unless it's blue smoke, but it still shouldn't stall out. Compression should be anywhere between 170-225 with a maximum variation between cylinders at 25%. Do you or your buddy know how to check the timing on your car?

[lostsoul74]

I dont, but he may, I'm gona stop back by tonight or tomarow to redo the compression if you say it's suppose to be that high, (not sure if he did a correct compression test, he just had me sit behind the wheel and give it slight crank, crank it 4-6 times, but not run it, just crank, then hed move to the next cylinder) the smoke is dark grey, but sometimes when mild smoke, it does have a slight bluish hue to it, but it doesnt always smoke, just once in a while, and when it does, it does a huge cloud, then fine again....

[gthompson97]

Well if the rings were in fact bad, it would smoke blue all the time (burning oil) and you'd probably have to add oil every once in awhile. When he does the test, have him write down the exact numbers from left to right and then post them up here.

[lostsoul74]

was that the correct way to do a compression test?? to not run it, just crank it a few times?? i'm heading over in a few if hes home, i want to test it myself. Thanks again.

[gthompson97]

Crank it over like 2-3 times with the coil unplugged so it doesn't start. Write down the reading, and move to the next cylinder.

[lostsoul74]

well, i think i found the problem, on the way over to his house i heard a faint thug noise then the car started running great, did the compression test at his house, 210, 210, 180, 145. So cylinder 4 is a bit low. figured i had bad ring and time to get rid of it, it ran great leaving, then hte lights and everything faded and the battery died. Checked it out, my alternator belt was fried. I'm woundering if all this smoke has been from the belt, it was alot of smoke ya know, more then i'd "think" a belt would make, maybe thats all it was, and i'm thinking the alternator froze up, cause she seemed to ride great on the way back till it died. Looks like a royal pain to get to though, but at least i know the problem. lol Thanks man, appreciate all the help, i'll let ya know when i fix in the next day or so. E

[gthompson97]

The alternator could have caused a problem, but you're still looking at a long term problem with cylinder #4 dropping off like that, even #3 is quite a bit off from 1 & 2. But fuck, for $400 you can't ask for a diamond.