92 Ciera windows/headliner

[daddy0_4]

Bought the 92 ciera I was looking at. as stated in an earlier post the rubber seals on all four door windows are shot and I want to replace them. already checked jc whitney and they do not list this car. any other place to get these? also allfour power windows move slow down and up, is this something i can fix-replace grease in motor gears/clean contacts- or do i need to replace all motors? and also the headliner is sagging can i just take the cloth off and paint? whats underneath or is it very difficult to replace this?,the cloth is in great shape can it be glued back on. Thanks to everyone to all the responses i've gotten on all of my questions.

[xeroinfinity]

Check around on the internet you should find someone who has the door gaskets, also the stealership is another option but will cost more.
A local body shop around you may also be able to order them for you and would be cheaper then the dealer.

Probly the track the windows slide in are dirty and need cleaned and greased.

The cloth is just glued to a cardboard piece.
The head line can be tacked up with upholstery tacks,
they sell them at hardwares and of coarse walmarts in thier sewing section.
Heres a pic of one of those tacks.


It also can be glued with contact glue in the spray can.
It gets messy if you dont remove the headliner and do it outside of the cabin where you have room to work and not breathing the fumes of the glue.

Unless you like the fumes

[daddy0_4]

thanks for the response xero. this car is in really good shape and the tacks i think would look tacky (sorry) i'll try to remove the h-liner and reglue it. as for the windows i figured something wrong (age) with the motors. i bought a 93 bravada several months ago and the previos owner had replaced the two front motors and they zipped up and down like the car was new but the two rears are slow, just like the ciera,i'll just have to investigate.

[Ian Szgatti]

The headliner can be a messy job, thats for sure. When you take it off you get all these little foamy things... all dried up and everything. They fall all over the interior, so taking it out is definately a good idea. Its a great little bit of work, what with taking off some interior trim panels and the dome light. Worth it though. My headliner is held up by strapping... some steel bands run across the roof every half foot.
Good choice on the buy... that car should bring you 300,000 miles before you need a rebuild

[daddy0_4]

Thanks Ian. Is there anything I should do or parts I should replace as a precautionary measure seeing the car has 150,000 on it. This car is for my son who lives 1100 mi away and I would rather fix/replace stuff here (alot less expensive) than have it go out after he gets it. I'm going to go over the car and do obvious stuff before we drive up for xmas (we live in fla. he is in ohio)

[Ian Szgatti]

One thing about these cars is the fuel pumps tend not to hold up well against overheating, so i wouldnt recommend driving with less than a quarter tank of gas.
Other than this one problem, I could only tell you to look. I'm not sure if you know how to use a multi-meter to test with, but it would be a good idea to take inventory on the cars condition electronically. I would imagine it probably runs alright, but it's nice to know where it might be weak.
One example is the fuel injectors, using an ohm meter you simply touch the leads across the power terminals and look for the injectors resistance. If they go below lets say 5 ohms, the car will not start. Even if one goes below specs.
My only other tip would be about engine oil. With my car anyways, the oil doesnt sit in the crankcase to long. The more grit and fuel mixes with it, the shorter it will last.
Driving style will play a huge role in its longevity, but that wont be controlled by you... You bought one of the most reliable cars you could, and if its treated right, you'll get several hundred thousand more MILES out of it. DOnt forget the undercoating

[daddy0_4]

Thanks again Ian. I used to work in a garage in the early 80's, not on many injected cars, and now(well for a long time) am a commercial a/c tech. So to check the injectors I should just unplug them and read resistance across the inj.? also in your opinion should i replace the fuel pump?(approximat cost) I'd hate to be driving up north and have it go out or should I just check the output psi and if it's ok(what should it be) let it go. I also need to replace all the door belt weatherstripping(8 pcs total) do you know where these can be had? also need the trunk lid seal.

[Ian Szgatti]

As far as the weather stripping, can't tell you where to get those items.

Thermostat- 195 degrees F. If you suspect its stuck open even slightly, replace as your fuel economy will suffer, and so will your engine from running too cool or too rich. With these OBD 1 cars you can connect a wire across ports in the diagnostic terminal... do it while the car is running. If the car is in open loop the Check Engine Light will flash fast, if it has gone into closed loop it will flash slow. IF you replace the thermo, go ahead with the temp sensor because both are so cheap.

Throttle position sensor- you can test this with your volt meter. There are three wires that plug into it. One will be a reference voltage from the computer (input) of 5v. With the Key On Engine Off, make sure its getting 5 volts, then, probe the signal wire (output). It should be about 0.45 to 1.25v, but no higher.
Plug your red lead into the back of the TPS (output) connector (its easy to push into the rubber) and connect your negative lead to a good ground. with key on engine off, slowly open the throttle and the TPS output should rise steady to 4.5v. If the output reaches only 4v, its still ok, but no lower. The increase you see should not be choppy, so go slow of course.

Injectors- 11 to 12.8 Ohms. Set multimeter to read in the tens. place probes across injector terminals to complete circuit. Thats it. If you get readings lower than 11 on any injector, dont worry to much. As the resistance in the fuel injection circuit goes down though, current increases, and the computer protects itself by shutting down the injectors if that current gets to high. If all your injectors are at 11 ohms and one is at 4.5 ohms, the car wont fire, it will just crank. It would be VERY wise to go to a scrap yard where you can pick the parts, and test some injectors there. Get yourself a bunch of good ones to keep on hand for when one fails. New ones are around 200 each. I've seen quotes people have gotten for all six... oh to have knowledge.

Fuel pressure- at idle you want to see 30-45 psi, unplug the vac line to the pressure regulator and the pressure should go up by 10 psi.

Mass Airflow Sensor- the output signal of the MAF should be 2.5v, while it to has a reference voltage of 5v. Tap it while the engine is running, kinda light, and listen for idle surges. If you have the AC Delco brand, it will be one wire in there you can see if you take off the air cleaner and the honeycomb looking grid. Its good to keep this sensor wire clean with a brake cleaner. Of course, this is best done before an oil change.

I have installed an oil pressure gauge on my engine. At operating temp in the summer heat, at idle, I run almost 60 psi. Specs I have on this car call for a minimum oil pressure of 30 psi at 2000 rpm... Surely that is the minimum for a severely worn engine. Gauges are good though to monitor oil viscosity, or detect any problems.
Finally, the fuel pump would be good to replace. Symptoms of an inefficiant or failing pump on these engines is a stumble under load, or a hard start. If you want to be a gambler like me, you can get a used one. Call places that sell used pumps, and ask to be THERE watching when they bench test it. It should run smoothly and quietly, and hold a good pressure when the return is pinched off. You can save a lot of money that way. Or, you could buy ultimate piece of mind and pay around 200 for brand new.
When these pumps fail, or are about too, they are very loud. turn the key to start the car, but dont crank... let it prime and listen. It should be juuuust loud enough to hear. If its loud, get it out, or you'll just stop one day soon.

Like I mentioned earlier, I have 280,000 kilometers on my 3300. Every time I change the oil I flush it as well. That means one can of engine flush solution, and two quarts of bulk oil mixed together, put in the engine after the old oil has been drained. I run the motor for five minutes, working it through all the oil passages and cleaning the bearing surfaces, then I drain and refill with fresh quality oil. It is very smooth. With 150,000 k.. that motor is just a puppy still if its been treated well. Sorry about this post of biblical proportions, but I love cars, and take this information seriously.

Ian

[daddy0_4]

Thanks Ian. That's a lot of great info and I'm assuming most of it can be used on other GM cars. I'm going to print and keep a copy with the car. Hopefuly I'll be able to check all those things out before we leave for Cincy. Thanks again.

[daddy0_4]

We made the trip to Cinti, car ran great. Had the car painted,replaced both front window motors,all door belt weather stripping,fuel pump and sock, headliner,oil and filter. Had the car loaded down withstuff for our sons and got between 33 and 35mpg!!! first tank was 35,thought I had made a mistake but got over 33 on second tank and over 34 on third unbeleivable. Any way after we got we now have what I think is a front bearing noise a growl when going straight,gets louder when in a right curve and disappears when in a left curve. Would this be the right front hub bearing?? Thanks to everyone for all the input.

[xeroinfinity]

Good write up Ian, though I wonder how this got from windows and headliners to engine diagnosis......

daddy0_4, not sure which one it would be.
Though you should be able to tell which one it is with the windows down.
Might not be a bad idea to change both since thiers some age on the car, and not knowing if they have ever been changed.

[daddy0_4]

Thanks xero. Are there any special tools required to replace them?Looks like you remove the axle nut,caliper rotor,and the three or so bolts that hold the hub assembly to the strut/spindle and it should come right out. Is this correct?

[xeroinfinity]

Yes you will need a hub/bearing puller. Most autostores rent/sell them, and a torque wrench.
You'll also want to find a manual for all the torque specs.

Ps also if you need futher help on this topic please post a new thread.
Since this one is way off topic,
it makes it hard for someone to find information they are looking for when this happens.

Good Luck