Zen and the art of science

[texan]

In order to balance this forum out in the Taoist sort of way (and that's pronounced Dao, not Tao), I think we should discuss a bit of Eastern philosophy instead of just the Christian sect of Western thought. And at the center of Eastern thought lies one simple image, the circle of yin & yang (most commonly called the T’ai Chi Chu symbol).

The circle is a simple image, one you all know. The spinning halves in teardrop shape represent the equal forces of yin (the passive, female comsos, epitomized by the moon) and yang (the active, male cosmos, epitomized by the sun), and in the center of each, a portion of the opposite exists. This icon represents the basis of Eastern dualist philosophy, and when one studies it's meaning a lot of things can become clear. For instance, not only is the world made of equal and opposite parts of a whole, but each part contains it's opposite. This ancient idea is in my opinion not only a long way ahead of most philosophy, but shows it's truth in places most people never think to look.

For instance, the modern discovery that matter and energy are interchangable is in fact not a modern idea. Speak to a tai chi student about the fundamental concepts here (throw out the technical jargon), and you will find that it falls nicely inline with 4000 year old philosophy. In fact, the area of study which brings about most current physics theory is called "philosophy of physics", because that's where man has his best ideas.

Look to any theory pertaining to physics to find the truth in this ancient belief. Currently, the smallest well known sub-atomic particles are quarks. These come in six flavors, top and bottom, left and right, strange and charmed. Each has it's compliment, and each goes together with others to build the sub-atomic particles known as protons and electrons. Protons themselves are positively charged particles, while electrons are negatively charged. Although each has a different mass, they are still compliments of one another, posessing opposite charges. And no atom is complete without at least one of each. The particles know as neutrons (inert sub atomic particles) are themselves comprised of a proton and electron stuck together, which cancel out each other in a nice little ballet of attraction. Starting to get the picture here? In all of our Quantum Theory, one thing holds true: everything has an opposite, and these opposites go together to form larger objects with their own opposite particles. But what of the idea that yin contains yang, and the reciprocal to that also being true?

As I said before, matter and energy are interchangable. If you take a photon (a pure energy particle or wave having no mass) and split it, you get one particle of matter and one of anitmatter. Both are parts of the whole, and both are pure opposites. And interestingly enough, both have mass. And the opposite also holds true; if you combine a particle of matter with antimatter, you end up with a photon again. In all actuality, matter IS energy, and energy IS matter. They have their own distinct properties, but both are part of a whole and both contain, and can become, their opposite.

The point of all this is to illustrate how effectively philosophy can reveal truth about the world we live in. Long before there were atomic accelerators allowing us to literally see these concepts in action, people already had it right. And in my opinion, they also had ideas concerning the nature of man and the universe right. In the best of Eastern thought, there is no "God". No man with a white beard sitting in judgement upon us all, no hell or heaven to reach after death. Yes, the universe is a whole entity with a life force creating it's fabric. And yes, although each and every thing is unique, it also represents part of this whole and is inextricably bound to it. At the core, we are paintings on a huge canvas, single brush strokes in an impossibly large work of art. And while we all posess something unique that defines us, we are also a small part of this whole we interract with every moment of every day, till our death. Enlightenment is acheived only by casting aside thoughts of one's own uniqueness and importance to the whole, allowing us to view it's complete intricacy and beauty. And while this indeed may sound blasphemous (or strangely familiar) to the wayward Christian, it remains my opinion on the way things are. So please, if you have the time, share your thoughts on the subject.
Peace! :smoker2:

[JD@af]

While I agree 100% with the notion that matter is energy and energy is matter, and your example of the common photon illustrates this point nicely, I think I need to reflect on this important idea more closely to come to terms with its significance. I always read things along this line and try to grasp it, and find myself falling somewhat short. I do believe in "the force," as in Star Wars, which is a reiteration of the same conundrum. I am fascinated by the notion that all matter has its own energy, because it itself is energy. And therefore how matter and energy's relation to one another levels certain properties of the universe into a unified playing field.

Even crazier is the idea of the parallel universe consisting entirely of anti-matter. What's the theory with it? Nothing can slow down to the speed of light? Could be onto something there: I forget which it was, but not too long ago some lab research scientists were either able to create an environment colder than absolute zero, or accelerate a particle to speeds in excess of the speed of light. I don't know what this proves about the universe, but something profound, however startling, in man working hard to discovering the limits of the laws of physics, and then finding ways to surpass them. So what's next, wormhole exploration?? We can only wait and see.

About enlightenment, I am still a heavy seeker of this almighty ideal. I am hoping that death is not the only way to achieve enightenment.. but often I fear it is. More often than I care to divulge, I am left wondering why me, why life, why the universe, why anything? For what purpose do I go to work everyday? Why is it important? I know the immediacy, that my job is to help monitor contaminant levels at sites with the long-term goals of helping clean them up, or just to adjust property values according to their level of contamination, and that I need my job as a course of income, so I can eat, etc. That's the nitty gritty. What is the big picture? Where is the meaning in it all?

I struggle with the notion that life is all about having a good time. Yes, it seems that wrestling the issue of purpose can certainly take the fun out of driving a fast car, having sex, or other forms of highs that provide enjoyment and fulfillment to the moments you partake in them. It does for me. I often think why fun? Why?? The answer, I believe, is enlightenment. But I am lost in how to find it. And yet I also know that all walks of life have taught me that searching is not the way to find it. Its back to the principles of Zen. It's knowing without knowing, and knowing without knowing that you know, achieving without trying. And while I often do thing like this in every day life, it still irks me.

Pitiful example, but a valid one, none-the-less: recently I am driving my company van, eating a sandwich; when I am done, I crumple the wrapper and toss it over my shoulder, and find when I arrive at the office that it went into an empty five-gallon bucket in the rear of the van - I could have tried to do this a hundred times over and not succeeded, but without trying even trying or thinking about it, with zero intention, I achieved it.... You may call that dumb luck, and while it may very well be, but I call that something significant, a miracle of you will, in that these kinds of occurences keep my faith in things greater than the world we live in, that we cannot understand.

Anyway, it is amazing how some ancient philosophers really did know what the world is all about. I know I am stumbling with my language here... I hope I am not degrading the potency of your post with my watered-down response... it's been a long Monday.

[Porsche]

I'm no eastern philosopher but, I was told that the yin-yang represented somehing else. I was told that each half was good and evil, white being good and black being evil. Within each half there was one of the opposite, therefore corrution in the good half and good in the evil hlf. I think your more right than me but this is just what I was told.

[TheMan5952]

They never actually hit Absolute Zero. They got damn close though.

As for they speed of light thing. Never atrifically created. It happen in almost unmeasurable amount of time, like a very fraction of a second. Only near black holes. That's how they find them, by radiation that flips off of light beams, at that instant it comes off, it is barely faster then light, but long enough to get away from the gravity. Or else we wouldn't know the exist we can oly measure Radiation given off by them. That's why tehy collapse, eventually they radiate off all there mass.

[enzo@af]

I had never heard of us finding anything moving faster than the speed of light! Wow! Any links or magazines you guys know of where I can read more about it?

[TheMan5952]

Read soe Stephen Hawking. It's interesting.

[Moppie]

GRRRR! I made a nice long reply to this and then it had some kind of error when i posted it and I lost it all.
SO ill sum it up nice and quick instead.

Western Philosophy was influenced quite strongly during the 18th and 19th century however it had some fundemental diffrences to many of the Eastern Ideas.
So I would Like to know a little more about the Eastern ideas on how to reach a higher state of being, what that higher state is, and its significance to the over all philosophical ideas.
Maybe we can compare the western ideas with the eastern.