Gettin sick of this

[Blaiser17]

I have now put the car in time several times. I can't figure out why it won't stay in time. The marks are always lined up perfectly, the belt is at the correct tension, i turn it by hand and all marks line up. As soon as I start the car it jumps EVERY time. I can't figure out what else it could be at this point. Playing with the crank angle sensor don't help none, cause it just jumps even when you realign it. I'd appreciate any help, I'm so close to the end, but even closer to giving up.

[4g63gst20]

the t-belt skipping? do you ever bend any valves? mine kept doing the same, and i couldnt figure out why, and turns out that the stupid belt i bought was crap, i bought a mitsu belt and has been fine since then.

[Blaiser17]

I havent bent any yet, it hasn't fallen too far out of time. When I bought the car though I had to end up buying a whole new head too. The belt I have right now is made by a compant called Contitech it came with the timing package which I bought. I'm gonna go buy a factory belt tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes...piece of crap belts.

[AbsoluteGTR]

Originally Posted by Blaiser17

compant called Contitech

Im betting thats the problem right there!

[firesdoom]

Originally Posted by Blaiser17

I have now put the car in time several times. I can't figure out why it won't stay in time. The marks are always lined up perfectly, the belt is at the correct tension, i turn it by hand and all marks line up. As soon as I start the car it jumps EVERY time. I can't figure out what else it could be at this point. Playing with the crank angle sensor don't help none, cause it just jumps even when you realign it. I'd appreciate any help, I'm so close to the end, but even closer to giving up.

Are you accounting for the one tooth that the exhaust camshaft turns backwards when you let tension off of it? You are going to need someone to hold the bolt for the camshaft while you are setting the belt. Make sure your idler pulley turns after you have set the belt, that happened to me. Oh, and make sure you are getting that 3.8mm(.15 inch) gap in the tensioner piston. More than that and that might be your problem. Make sure that the tensioner piston is 12mm in length when it's not being compressed. Have a nice day.

[Blaiser17]

Originally Posted by firesdoom

Are you accounting for the one tooth that the exhaust camshaft turns backwards when you let tension off of it? You are going to need someone to hold the bolt for the camshaft while you are setting the belt. Make sure your idler pulley turns after you have set the belt, that happened to me. Oh, and make sure you are getting that 3.8mm(.15 inch) gap in the tensioner piston. More than that and that might be your problem. Make sure that the tensioner piston is 12mm in length when it's not being compressed. Have a nice day.

I have accounted for that tooth...but they should line up when full tension is placed on the camshafts with spring clips or vice grips holding the belt there, correct? Then I wouldn't need anyone to hold the camshaft right? Idler pulley does turn, and the gap on the hydraulic tensioner is at .15 inch. So I'm hoping it's just the generic belt, which I didn't think was generic at the time, but it is...haha.

[firesdoom]

Originally Posted by Blaiser17

I have accounted for that tooth...but they should line up when full tension is placed on the camshafts with spring clips or vice grips holding the belt there, correct? Then I wouldn't need anyone to hold the camshaft right? Idler pulley does turn, and the gap on the hydraulic tensioner is at .15 inch. So I'm hoping it's just the generic belt, which I didn't think was generic at the time, but it is...haha.

So just to make sure, you have turned the exhaust camshaft sprocket one tooth clockwise so that it lines up with the intake camshaft sprocket correct. When you let go of the exhaust camshaft sprocket it should turn one tooth counter-clockwise. I really think you need another person for this. Has anyone here set their timing belt without help from anyone else?

You are using a tensior tool right? You really need the procedure in front of you if you don't have that.

[Blaiser17]

Originally Posted by firesdoom

So just to make sure, you have turned the exhaust camshaft sprocket one tooth clockwise so that it lines up with the intake camshaft sprocket correct. When you let go of the exhaust camshaft sprocket it should turn one tooth counter-clockwise. I really think you need another person for this. Has anyone here set their timing belt without help from anyone else?

You are using a tensior tool right? You really need the procedure in front of you if you don't have that.

Actually isn't it the other way around? I have to turn the exhaust camshaft counter-clockwise to line it up with the intake, and when i let go of it, it turns clockwise. At least thats the way mine is. I do have the tensioner tool though, yes. But if you use 2 vice grips to hold the top of each camshaft while you have the belt positioned where you want, it works everytime. Idunno, let me know what you think, maybe I'm mixed up.

[firesdoom]

Originally Posted by Blaiser17

Actually isn't it the other way around? I have to turn the exhaust camshaft counter-clockwise to line it up with the intake, and when i let go of it, it turns clockwise. At least thats the way mine is. I do have the tensioner tool though, yes. But if you use 2 vice grips to hold the top of each camshaft while you have the belt positioned where you want, it works everytime. Idunno, let me know what you think, maybe I'm mixed up.

This is the procedure word for word.

Turn the two sprockets(camshaft) so that their dowel pins are located on top. Then, align the timing marks facing each other with the top surface of the cylinder head. When you let go of the exhaust camshaft sprocket, it will rotate one tooth in the counterclockwise direction. This should be taken into account when installing the timing belt on the sprockets.

The dowel pins are the holes located above the camshaft sprocket bolts. By aligning the timing marks facing the top surface of the cylinder head they mean parallel to the cylinder head. The exhaust timing mark faces the firewall and the intake timing marks faces the headlights. The dowel pins face upwards. Make sure your crankshaft is lined up too. Also, to make sure, the exhaust camshaft is the one on the left side.

You should be able to tell when the timing is off because there is a lot of distance between each tooth. If you can't tell, you're doing something wrong.

[Blaiser17]

Are the two sprockets made differently at all? If so I might have mixed them up when placing them on the camshafts. But otherwise...with my timing marks, when the dowel pins are on top, the marks on the left line up perfect, and the one on the right I have to tilt one tooth in the counterclockwise direction in order for them to line up. I know it's not what they say in the book, but thats the way they line up straight with my car Thats why I was thinking that maybe the sprockets got mixed up...but even if they did as long as they line up in the end and all the marks are right on the money, it should not matter right? I'm going to pick up a new Mitsubishi belt from the dealer tomorrow at 8 and I'll have it ready to start by 10. I'll let you know how it goes *crossing fingers* It's amazing how I can get a cheap belt that looks identical to the factory one for $14 but I gotta get the factory one for $73.95....damn thieves. Oh well guess ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

[gstclips]

Hey Blaiser, hope you read this in time...when you go pick up your t-belt from the dealer tomarrow, mention that you want the DSM Club discount. That should knock alittle off the price.

[firesdoom]

Originally Posted by Blaiser17

Are the two sprockets made differently at all? If so I might have mixed them up when placing them on the camshafts. But otherwise...with my timing marks, when the dowel pins are on top, the marks on the left line up perfect, and the one on the right I have to tilt one tooth in the counterclockwise direction in order for them to line up. I know it's not what they say in the book, but thats the way they line up straight with my car Thats why I was thinking that maybe the sprockets got mixed up...but even if they did as long as they line up in the end and all the marks are right on the money, it should not matter right? I'm going to pick up a new Mitsubishi belt from the dealer tomorrow at 8 and I'll have it ready to start by 10. I'll let you know how it goes *crossing fingers* It's amazing how I can get a cheap belt that looks identical to the factory one for $14 but I gotta get the factory one for $73.95....damn thieves. Oh well guess ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

If you got the sprockets mixed up you are beyond the scope of my limited abilities. I'm not familiar with taking off or reinstalling those. Was the motor at TDC when you took the sprockets off? Did you reinstall them in the same postion they were in when you took them off? This could turn out to be a real can of worms.

When you let go of the sprocket does it spring back to the original position?

I think you have a problem that cannot be fixed by just using an OEM belt. The exhaust camshaft sprocket is what you need to hold while setting the timing. Anything else is .

[Blaiser17]

haha i know its weird, but the number 1 piston is at TDC so I guess it's alright haha. And thanks GST I'll ask about that discount I'm going down now...hows that work though?

[kjewer1]

I don't think the cam gears are any different, there is no way to tell them apart on a 1g. The 95-96, and maybe all 2g gears, have provisions to mount the cam sensor trigger on the backside, so it looks much different. I don't think this can be the problem either way.

I have been doing tbelt jobs by myself for 5 years. Never had any trouble yet.

As long as the cam gear marks line up when you rotate the cams away from each other to take up the slack between the gears, all the rotating crap becomes a non issue. If you are by even a tooth at this point it will become painfully obvious. And I think it goes without saying, but you can't be off by less than one tooth.

Here is my basic procedure. Get the cam gears lined up first. Clamp or ziptie the belt to the gears, at 12 oclock on the gear, and on the outside edge of the gear, so it can't skip. Once that is done, all there is to do if you don't have bshafts is to line up the crank pulley and slip it on. Remember to pull down on the right hand side, the side with the stationary idler gear, since that is the side that determines the cam to crank valve timing. The left side will have all the slack, which will be taken up by the tensioner pulley. Usually when tightening the tension, you "pull" the exhaust cam counter clockwise. But if you align the parts and install the belt as I outline here this will not cause any change in the timing.

How strong in your tensioner? Does it take a good few minutes to compress it in a vice? If it collapses too easy it could cause this problem. I've seen a few bad tensioners from time to time. Run the motor (Carefully) with the upper timing belt cover off too, make sure the cam gears run true and don't wobble. It's also possible to install the tensioner pulley backwards, but IIRC that usually makes it rub on the inside, not jump off. Also check all of the teeth on your cam gear and crank sprockets, make sure you aren't missing any.

If the marks are all line up and the gap is set to .15", then you run it and it jumps, it's either the belt is made of rubber bands, the sprockets are damaged or crooked, or the auto tensioner is no longer strong enough.

[Blaiser17]

Well I ran down and got that timing belt and put it on yesterday and it worked liked a charm. The other one I had on there was new, but it was a piece of crap apparently. But now with the mitsubishi belt its in perfect time. I dont have the balance shafts anymore so I didnt need to worry about that, but watch for the balance shaft elimation kit that has no oil groove in the stub end for the oil pump sprocket...it's bad news.