New one- SLR AALs and Torsion crank to start-a few questions

[Travii]

I would like to start the process of fixing up my X. I am looking to start by putting on SLR AALs and about a 1"-1.5" crank on the front. I don't go out and try to push my truck to the limit, I just want more clearence underneath. I do plan on continuing these efforts to add even more lift, but am slowed down by money of course.. I have a few questions:

With a 1-1.5 " crank on the torsion bars, and not pushing it to the limit off road, what are some future consequences that might arise? (ex. wearing out, busting the bar, other problems that might come up)

Is it just optional, a good idea, or a necessity to change shocks after putting on the AAls? Im pretty poor right now, but plan on eventually getting Bilstein shocks for the rear after the AALs. Is that ok to do, will the stock shocks handle the ~1" lift in the back?

Also, probably stupid question, but figured it can't hurt to ask, one doesn't need any sort of realignment after putting on the AALs do they? I know you need one after cranking the torsion bars.

Any other advice would be welcome for a newbie-type..

[rrdstarr]

I'll chime in and say that a lot of your questions are already answered in the column, you just have to dig back a little bit.

Once you adjust your torsion bars, GET an alignment. You won't really stress anything doing a torsion bar lift, unless you go to high with it. You should have 1/2" - 3/4" between your upper A arm and the small bumpstop. You won't wear the stock shocks out any faster by lifting them. AAl's in the rear don't require an alignment, just make sure everything is torqued down real good, AND check it after driving it for a week! Springs and fasteners may settle and need tightening. Buy new shicks for the rear though. The stock shocks will limit the downward travel of the springs once the AAL is in.

[travii99]

Yes, they are, kind of spread out, I just wanted to make sure that I fully understood, and there wasn't a thread I had missed that could hurt me..

Thanks for the help

[travii99]

Actually, I haven't seen this talked about...

For starters, going with Shackles and Torsion crank first, then later AALs etc..
Is it a bad idea to put shackles on the stock springs, or is it a better to replace the pack or get AALs before messing with shackles?

[Schludwiller]

Travil, turn your thread options to display "since the beginning". That should help find old threads.

Get the AAL's before shackles. The shackles will degrade an already weak springpack. AAL's should give you the 2" you would gain from shackles and improve your ride.

[travii99]

Ok, another dumb question, it is touched on around here, but I would like to make sure I know what Im getting into before I do anything. If I were to crank my T-bars up one inch, all it would effect is ride smoothness right? How rough would it be, is that something to be concerned about? One inch isn't much for a crank and shouldnt cause any major problems, right? What about 1.5", then we are kinda pushing it and more problems can arise.

Another thing Im kinda unsure about is on a front lift what exactly raises the suspension, is it mainly the new a-arm (which allows more movement) with the new torsion bars adjusted to the preferred height, or is there more to it than that. It seems to me that the ride would still be harsh with if this were the case. Im getting the AALs soon and would like to eventually raise my front end up to make a level ride (past my 1"). If I get 2" on the AALs and have my t-bars up 1", is the upper a-arm my next step to balance out the front?
I guess that I dont fully grasp how a front lift works, please bare with me and offer help, thanx..

[Schludwiller]

The front suspension lift works by replacing the upper a-arms with ones that allow for more downward travel than the stock ones. With the new arms the vehicle can be put into correct alignment with the modified geometry.

Cranking your stock torsion bars lifts the vehicle by increasing the torque on the bars. This pre-loads the bars, so they are less able to provide dampening ability (the harsh ride you describe). You can re-index your bars, which involves removing the torsion bars, adjusting the a-arm angle to its new position and re-installing the bars. This puts them back in with normal torque on the bars, but their position holds the a-arms at the new higher position.

Using the torsion bar to lift your front end will expose your steering components to more wear like the lifted owners are experiencing.

Anyone else feel free to chime in if I overlooked or mistated anything.

[travii99]

Is cranking torsion bars a REALLY bad thing to do for the sake of steering components? It seems pretty popular to do, how many people reading this have or have not had steering issues?

also, am i correct in saying based on the reply that if I were to re-index the t-bars and replace the a-arm there would be less of a chance for steering problems? I haven't seen any info on re-indexing, for example degrees of rotation per inch of lift etc. Has anyone done this and could offer advice? It seems like that would be a better alternative to just cranking them up.

[OffroadX]

Re-indexing won't do anything for the steering problems. In fact, it does nothing at all. The torque on the bars needed to maintain a certain ride height is the same regardless, re-indexing them doesn't change that. Re-indexing is only needed/useful if your bars weren't indexed properly in the first place or are worn out and can't maintain the ride height without cranking the adjuster all the way.

As for the new UCA's helping steering problems, they won't. The steering problems come from the fact that the tie rods are at an increased angle to the centerlink when the torsion bars are cranked, and cause the centerlink to be rotated upwards (CCW from the driver's side view) when they take a rapid load. The arms don't change that, and the extra lift you can coax out of them will only make it worse.

That said, I'm entirely stock except for 32x11.50" tires. I have cranked my torsion bars up a little and by doing so increased the resting angle on my tie rods a little, but not nearly as much as most that run 32s have typically done. I still have a good bit of space between my bump stop and my stock UCA at rest. I get some rubbing inside the top of the wheel well, but it's not hurting anything. The cranking only makes it less frequent, you don't even have to do it if you don't mind rubbing a hole in the fender liner. I'm not dainty in my 'wheeling at all and as far as I know my steering is still in good shape. The steering problems are mostly showing up with those that have installed suspension lifts.

The further you go from stock, the more likely you are to have steering issues from 'wheeling, period, unless "not stock" involves a new steering setup like the Calmini or SLR kits.

Brent

[Schludwiller]

I still have a conceptual problem with the re-index issue. If the tension on a torsion bar is able to keep the a-arm at height X. Why would more tension be needed if you detach the torsion bar, move the a-arm to a new position Y, and re-apply the same initial tension? The weight of the vehicle hasn't changed, and isn't that what the t-bar is resisting? (I do understand how this would be needed if the t-bars are just adjusted and not re-indexed).

Can anyone clarify this?

[hobbes69]

Re-indexing only helps if you run out of adjusting room.
The problem with the lifting the front end (cranking your torsion bar) is the angle of the A-arm. When the angle is increased there is less torque on the torsion bars. In an extreme example, if the A-arms were verticle, the force would be verticle, there would be no torque on the torsion bars. In the other extreme, if the A-arms are horizontal, the maximum torque is applied to the torsion bars. Of course I'm talking about "static" loads here (perfect pavement or at rest).

With dynamic loads, such as driving on typical Memphis streets is another matter. The higher your A-arm angle, the more the shock is transferred through the A-arm to the joint, which doesn't have any "give" and less is transferred to the torsion bar to cause it to deflect (actuate your suspension). Which is why a torsion crank makes the ride ruffer. The repleacement A-arms and torsion bars with more constant spring rates help this significantly.

I hope this helps, if I was at work I would make a little AutoCAD drawing for a visual aid.

[Travii]

I cranked my bars up one inch because Im getting my AALs soon. I took it in to get the front aligned today and when I got it home it was up to 1.5". I am going to give it a few days and see if it settles after being lifted for the alignment. Anyone else had this happen?

The "mechanic" and I got to talking and he told me I would need to return after installing the AAls as it will change the angle of the front end and mis-align the front again. I am going to categorize that as a money making scheme unless he is actually right, anyone?

Another thing on the topic, if I wanted to keep only a 1-1.5 " lift on the front as I replace the torsion bars and the A-arms, all I would have to do is just adjust the tbars to a 1.5" lift? Basically, the adjustments on the tbars dictate your ride height right? If you want a 3", you set them for 3", 1.5", you set them for 1.5"?.?. I just want to make sure I understand this, bare with the newbie...

[superjens]

The "mechanic" and I got to talking and he told me I would need to return after installing the AAls as it will change the angle of the front end and mis-align the front again

I think your mechanic is drinking motor oil on his breaks.

[redxseven]

Actually he is probably right and wrong.

Lifting the rear of the truck will have an impact on the steering alignment. Imagine the steering components rotation axis.... the "upper" location of this axis - the UCA - will be further forward than the lower axis. this would change steering alignment... BUT


a lift of 1.5 - 2.0 inches on a 104" wheelbase will only change the steering axis by .55 degrees so the alignment is probably unnecessary.