Belt too tight??? smoking, low idle, and CEL???

[Mikelb]

Man, I think that the problem is solved... but I wanna make sure this all adds up...

Back ground... I bought the 97 RS a few months ago... I installed a CAI and the IAT went out... I replaced the IAT and reset the CEL... ran fine... then PS/AC belt jumped off... replaced it, at the same time I added a high-flow cat... the car ran a little rougher... and smoked... I assumed it was because of the high-flow...

I did notice the idle was funny and that the gas mixture seemed really rich, and it took forever for the RPMs to drop to idle...

Two days ago, my CEL came back on... I scanned and it came back the IAT... I checked, the sensor is fine...oh well, I went on my way...

I was on the way home that night... and my alt belt popped...
so I replaced that last night... but not the ps/ac belt... which I had to remove... and now the car's running fine...

could it have simply been too tight?

[crunchymilk55]

not having a cat or even a high flow cat will only cause black smoke under WOT or close to it.

Always use OEM belts.

Regarding your IAT problem, what does that stand for? I assume it's something for the NT's ?

[Mikelb]

yeah, it was an OEM belt... I didn't use a torque wrench though... just got it as tight as I deemed necessary...

IAT is for NTs (they don't flow enough for MAS)... it stands for Intake Air Temerature Sensor...
it tells the car how hot the air coming in is, and meters the gas appropriately...

though I think that the idle may have been slowed and the mixture therefore became too rich... but I wanna see if this makes sense to someone else...

[Killa]

Originally Posted by crunchymilk55

not having a cat or even a high flow cat will only cause black smoke under WOT or close to it.

Always use OEM belts.

Regarding your IAT problem, what does that stand for? I assume it's something for the NT's ?

OEM = Mitsubishi right ?

[SLoe]

Almost all if not all fuel injected engines use air temperature for feedback to the ecu, because the density of the air is different at different temps. Colder air requires more fuel because it is more dense, and hotter air requires less fuel. I believe the air temp sensor is built into the MAS on our cars (turbo).


OEM= Original Equipment Manufacturer; a company that supplies a sub assembly used in the manufacture of cars and other items. Like Delco products in GM vehicles.

[Mikelb]

Originally Posted by loeman

Almost all if not all fuel injected engines use air temperature for feedback to the ecu, because the density of the air is different at different temps. Colder air requires more fuel because it is more dense, and hotter air requires less fuel. I believe the air temp sensor is built into the MAS on our cars (turbo).


OEM= Original Equipment Manufacturer; a company that supplies a sub assembly used in the manufacture of cars and other items. Like Delco products in GM vehicles.

You are correct, the IAT on the turbo cars is built into the MAS (same sensor as 3000GT/Stealth... my previous car)...

OEM for Mitsubishi=Mitsuboshi (for belts anyway)... the performance side of Mitsubishi Motors is known as Ralliart... Still OEM, but the manufacturer's "aftermarket" side, so to speak...


And yeah... I watched the car on the way home tonight... no smoking, or stuttering... I do b/l it was just the belt's tension...

I'm leaving the AC/PS belt off for now, I have a bit more horsepower, and better gas mileage... What's the expected hp gain for AC/PS delete??? (leaving them on the car, for future use... if I change my mind)... I just don't want the parasitic drag...

[gthompson97]

Maybe 5hp if you're lucky. In your case it's probably not worth it to not run power steering just because of the fact that you get ~5hp.

[Mikelb]

well, I get my hp a lot quicker... guess that's b/c it revs a lot faster... and it seems to bog less at the top end...

crazy thing happened last night on the way home... I was making a left turn... and this Focus tries to pull on me... I was like w/e... and I gunned it... then I heard the sound of sudden death... my belt sounded like it shattered into a million pieces... I backed off the gas... I kept driving though... I was a/b half-way home, and then I started smelling rubber... I knew the belt was still on at that point... I didn't know how bad it was...

Well, I got home and upon further inspection... the belt is there... one side is ragged out, but the rest is fine... funny thing is, it's inside out... the ribs are outside of the belt???

That's f'ed up... not really sure how that happened, but I did notice a part of the inside (towards motor) crank pulley is chipped away... I also noticed a dent in the oil pan (from outside, not inside)... I think the oil pan is a completely different story, but could the crank pulley be the culprit here???

[gthompson97]

Yes, if it has a big enough chip in it, it will ruin the belt.

[crunchymilk55]

lol, belt turned inside out? That's new.

[firesdoom]

If you don't have power steering always remember to keep both hands on the wheel when turning. 5hp won't get you out of a ditch.

4g63 n/t first gens have a MAF as well. Don't know about the 4g37's though.

I guess if the pulley turned your belt over where the chip is it might have just turned the whole thing inside out. That's pretty cool.

[Mikelb]

Originally Posted by firesdoom

If you don't have power steering always remember to keep both hands on the wheel when turning. 5hp won't get you out of a ditch.

4g63 n/t first gens have a MAF as well. Don't know about the 4g37's though.

I guess if the pulley turned your belt over where the chip is it might have just turned the whole thing inside out. That's pretty cool.

yeah, I already know a/b the steering... I've driven the car without p/s before (the belt popped off when I first bought the car)...

hmm... I didn't know that a/b the first gen n/ts... to my understanding, MAS helps with speed density or something... and 4cy n/a's aren't gonna flow enough to need that kinda measuring...

but yeah, that's what I was assuming happened to the belt... I had to drive it home, and was gonna fix it, but it snapped completely...

now I think I have more serious problems... last night there was a clanging sound in the top end of my motor... not sure what it is... but I may pull the valve cover and check... but first I'm simply gonna check the oil... wish me luck

[SLoe]

Originally Posted by Mikelb

yeah, I already know a/b the steering... I've driven the car without p/s before (the belt popped off when I first bought the car)...

hmm... I didn't know that a/b the first gen n/ts... to my understanding, MAS helps with speed density or something... and 4cy n/a's aren't gonna flow enough to need that kinda measuring...

but yeah, that's what I was assuming happened to the belt... I had to drive it home, and was gonna fix it, but it snapped completely...

now I think I have more serious problems... last night there was a clanging sound in the top end of my motor... not sure what it is... but I may pull the valve cover and check... but first I'm simply gonna check the oil... wish me luck

You guys are off the map. MAS and MAF are two completely different systems. MAF uses a heated wire to determine how much fuel is needed, and MAS uses Karmen Vortex sensor. It doesn't matter how much air you are flowing, it's just what system the manufacturer decided to put on the car. If the first gens had MAFs then we wouldn't be buying GM mafs and translators. Speed density is completely different, and doesn't need "help" from a MAS. It uses a MAP sensor (manifold absolute pressure) to determine how much air is flowing.

[firesdoom]

Originally Posted by loeman

You guys are off the map. MAS and MAF are two completely different systems. MAF uses a heated wire to determine how much fuel is needed, and MAS uses Karmen Vortex sensor. It doesn't matter how much air you are flowing, it's just what system the manufacturer decided to put on the car. If the first gens had MAFs then we wouldn't be buying GM mafs and translators. Speed density is completely different, and doesn't need "help" from a MAS. It uses a MAP sensor (manifold absolute pressure) to determine how much air is flowing.

Fuck, I put MAF didn't I? I meant to put MAS.

MAS-Mass Air Sensor(although it's actually one assembly with the intake air temp sensor, barometric pressure sensor and the mass air sensor)
It's measures the speed, density and temperature of the incoming air. Is it ok to call the whole assembly the MAS?
MAF-?

You're talking about the GM map sensor conversion right? Does that help you with performance or reliability or what?

[SLoe]

Originally Posted by firesdoom

Fuck, I put MAF didn't I? I meant to put MAS.

MAS-Mass Air Sensor(although it's actually one assembly with the intake air temp sensor, barometric pressure sensor and the mass air sensor)
It's measures the speed, density and temperature of the incoming air. Is it ok to call the whole assembly the MAS?
MAF-?

Our MAS (Mass Air Sensor) is a Karmen Vortex air flow meter. It consists of a vortex generator, metal foil, and a photo coupler. The intake air reacting against the vortex generator creates a swirling effect like the wake of a boat. The wake is refered to as a Karman Vortex. The frequency of the wakes will vary in proportion to intake air velocity. The wake is then metered into a pressure directing hole where the mirror, or metal foil is. The air flow against this reflective surface causes it to move in proportion to the frequency of the vortices. This causes the light from the photocoupler LED (emitter) to be alternately moved away, and reapplied to a reciever. This causes the photo transistor to either ground or open a signal to the ecu.


The GM MAF (Mass Air Flow sensor) converts the amount of air taken into the engine into a voltage signal using a heated wire, a thermistor, and an electronic control circuit. The circuit maintains the hot wire at a constant temperature in relation to the thermistor. More air flow will cause the wire to lose heat faster, and the circuit will compensate by sending more current. The circuit measures this current flow and puts out a voltage signal in proportion to current flow.

Originally Posted by firesdoom

You're talking about the GM map sensor conversion right? Does that help you with performance or reliability or what?

No not the GM MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor. That was used on the speed density systems.

People use the GM MAF, and a translator. It flows more air, and is more acurate IMHO, and since it can be placed after the turbo it will allow you to vent to the atmosphere. Don't worry about that yet, you won't overun the 2g MAS until about 50lbs/min (according to Kevin, as I have not reached this yet). The 1g flows less IIRC.