Charging problems w/ 91 Lumina 3.1L...long

[gregory_gdp]

Wow, been searching and reading looking to see if anyone has had the same problem that is happening with mine. No one has had the specific problem (or atleast not that I've found) that is happening to my car.

Here's the problem... First it started with a faulty turn signal, when I used them they would turn on but not blink (replaced relay they work fine again) after a day of that when I used the turn signal it stalled (stereo cut out, fan shut off engine sounded like it lost a couple cylinders and then completely shut off after stopping) the car out. It drained the battery enough to where the car wouldn't start again. Jump started it and drove about a block before stalling again... Dead battery? Tested battery and it was pretty worn out so replaced that.

Drove home then to work and was driving home again and the car stalled out again. Took out Alternator and tested it...failed horribly. Replaced that with a rebuilt life time warrenty one. Drove around fine for two days after that. Tried to drive to work tonight and the car stalled out again. Tried to start it again and got nothing looked under the hood fiddled with some wires and the car started again and seemed to be working fine and the lights weren't dim and the fan was blowing at normal levels, but didn't want to chance driving it to work.

So I was reading around and was thinking about some things that other people were having problems with. The ECM a common problem but does that seem like my problem? I had recently washed the car and washed a ton of mud out from the wheel wells so it doesn't sound good in any case. Also read about people having problems with alternators not charging the system while idling due to the pulley size and higher output. Hmmm... I think the alternator was the same as the original but I'll take a closer look and see if it's a higher output alt. than normal.

This is what I think it is but I freaking hate dealing with this stuff. The wiring looks like shit it's pretty dinged up and melted plastic in some spots (no bare wires though) and the battery terminal wire (big fat red wire anyways) looks pretty hashed up and mangled at the connection area to the alternator. But would that be enough to cause my problems. Checked the battery terminal wires and while I tightened them down even more they were not loose.

Atleast it's at home this time so I have all my tools handy and can take my time. I had to change the alternator at the Target store parking lot where the car stalled out on the way home last time.

I'll have to grab some pictures and show you guys what it looks like and I also have two mystery wires that are not connected to anything and I can't find any plugs that are missing wires.

that's everything that I will bug you guys about for now I have some other projects to work on but those can wait for another day. Sorry that it's so long but I figured the more you know the easier it is to help figure out the problem.

Regards,

Greg Myers

[richtazz]

Double check the battery cables to insure they are clean and tight, both at the battery and starter/jump post (positive cable), and the engine block and body ground under the air cleaner housing assembly (negative cable). Also check the plug in the back of the alternator for corrosion. If all seems good, then it's possible the ECM is the problem, as it controls the alternator output.

[Jonn]

Originally Posted by richtazz

Double check the battery cables to insure they are clean and tight, both at the battery and starter/jump post (positive cable), and the engine block and body ground under the air cleaner housing assembly (negative cable). Also check the plug in the back of the alternator for corrosion. If all seems good, then it's possible the ECM is the problem, as it controls the alternator output.

Right, you wouldnt believe how many times i went out and checked peroples cars for battery going dead, stalling, etc. With them screaming they have a new battery! they cleaned the cables! all that... Till i aked if they cleaned and tightened the OTHER end of both the cables, and i got a blank stare.
One guy with ford pickup replaced battery, alrinator, cable ends on battery, and was about ready to set it on fire when i got to look at it, i pulled up on NEG cable and had the end in my hand, corroded out of the terminal on the engine block. Soooo, be aware too just cause the "terminal" is tight, doesnt always mean the wire end inside it is making good contact either.

[gregory_gdp]

Here's a good question. Replacing the module that connects to the alternator and it has three wires two 18 gauge wires and one 12 gauge wire while the old unit only had the two 18 gauge wires. For the life of me I can not find a corresponding 12 gauge wire that would connect to the one on the new module. So do I need the 12 guage wire or not and if I do where the hell is it supposed to connect to.

So I got everything hooked up and rewired that looked bad and tightend down everything else and still the same problem.

Charged the battery and started the car. Wipers work slower than usuall, fan works about the same, and the radio is the radio. Turn on the lights and they are dim and they will dim the interior lights as well.

Here is a picture of the extra wires and the mystery wires.

[tfp1977]

Do you have a light in the hood, that black wire connector with blue seal looks like the one for that light. The gray connector I believe may be the fuel pump test connector.

[gregory_gdp]

Yup, thanks for the mystery wire help. Now if I could just get the car to work.

[comptech_69]

Originally Posted by tfp1977

Do you have a light in the hood, that black wire connector with blue seal looks like the one for that light. The gray connector I believe may be the fuel pump test connector.

This.

That alternator woring kinda looks like a hack job, I've never see those wires on any of my cars before

[richtazz]

Do you have a wire connected to the stud on the back of the alternator? If you are re-wiring the connector at the voltage regulator, the bigger wire usually either goes directly to the battery, or loops to the stud on the back of the alternator, which should have another wire that goes to the battery. GM used the same style connector on many applications which had anywhere from 1-4 wires, and the aftermarket replacement has 4 wires (one part number replaces all factory connectors, you just wont use all the wires on the replacement connector).

[richtazz]

1st off, are you re-wiring the voltage regulator plug? 2nd, where does the "spare" 12ga wire come from?

[gregory_gdp]

Yeah the wiring is a hack job just for the moment while I'm messing with everything. I just didn't want the wires touching anything but still easy enough to take off. The alternator has the one main battery terminal wire that goes from the Voltage regulator (well it's the part right next to the starter anyways were all teh battery wires come off) to the stud on the alternator. Down by the VR there is a purple 12 gauge wire next to that wire but for the life of me I can't find where it goes I get lost following it this way and that. It ends up going into this huge bundle of wires that goes back up to the ECM/fuse box area but I can't find it at that end.

[richtazz]

The voltage regulator is mounted to the alternator, it's the black plastic piece with the multi-wire plug. Do you have a wiring diagram for this car, and was the wiring this messed up when you got it?

[gregory_gdp]

So it turns out that the new alternator was bad from the start. We also found out what the short was...yeah when testing for shorts make sure you turn everything off and CLOSE THE TRUNK!!! I had left the trunk open so the light was one and causing the short. I called my dad for help and he brought his voltage tester and checked things out finding that the alternator was bad.