Fuel Pump Switchout?

[mshelby]

Ok. I seem to learn about how to fix things as I go. When it comes to my 97 Grand Voyager I have done the brakes, replaced the a/c computer. replaced the heater core and replaced an intake manifold gasket.

Is the Fuel pump pretty easy to get to?
I'm a simple guy with a simple socket set (woe is me...)

The vehicle sputtered and died, and sputtered and died some more. Now the van turns over but won't fire up. (like it's getting no gas).

I may as well go on and replace the fuel pump from everything I've read here. (150,000 miles on the van), but is there anything I should try first that might be simpler/cheaper?

[slantsixness]

Read my thread on the 96 Voyager sputtering and stalling.....

Use the Bosch Pump ($207 at Auto Zone), don't be fooled that other pumps fit. Read the other thread! Watch what you buy off ebay... you can't return it! (see the fine print....and they're the wrong pump!!!)

What tools?

• A $10 chain wrench or a $25 strap wrench (chain wrench must be bigger than 5", most are NOT! (you can extend the chain, however...)
• 15mm socket (straps)
• needle nose pliers (red lock clip, fuel lines)
• Jack, jack stands, maybe an extra jack too
• waterproof (all plastic or rubber, etc..) flashlight
• Safety glasses/goggles
• Fire extinguisher (just in case)

As far as how easy it is?

This is from the perspective of a Layman, not a shop:
(I'm a "layman", I crawl under my cars and "lay" there to fix them, I don't have the space or money for a lift! )

• jack up the left rear of the van, high enough to work under it comfortably and safely.
• secure the tank (hopefully empty, or close to empty) DO NOT use a "Jack only" in the very center of the tank, you will bind the pump!
• remove the inside (center of Van) strap bracket bolts and let the straps hang down.
• Remove the fuel pump wire connector (have to remove the red lock clip first)
• Lower the tank about 4"-6"...the lines will let you lower it.
• unclip the fuel lines. (if you happen to replace the external filter, you won't have to salvage the clips if you buy it from Chrysler)
• Using a strap wrench, or a chain wrench wrapped in a rag for safety(6" diameter) loosen the retaining ring. (the manual says to use a "manufactured tool".. well I don't have the money for tool fabrication, so I used a chain wrench covered in a rag.) This can be pretty tight, so expect an apply a little elbow grease. it unscrews! If the tank is propped up in the center, you will have great difficulty removing the ring. It does turn COUNTERCLOCKWISE, as you would expect.
• remove the pump assembly. Wipe off the ring, and retrieve the round gasket (but don't re-use it!)
• install the new gasket provided with the new pump (goes along the outer ring of the threaded collar on the tank....and yes, it will fit!)
• install the pump... be sure the float is right side up, and once installed, twist the pump left and right, there is a keyway where ir sets right.
• Re-install the ring. Tighten with the wrench again, not just by hand.

Reassemble in the same manner you took it apart.

These instructions are included with the new pump.

This is really pretty simple, and best done when you have the tank as empty as possible. But there is no need to drain the tank completely (and where would you store 16 gallons of gas, and how would you put it back?!)

I recommend changing the external filter, because it probably has never been changed. Buy it from a Chrysler dealer.

AS IT SHOULD BE YOUR CONCERN AND MINE,

SAFETY! SAFETY! SAFETY!

NEVER WORK AROUND OPEN FUEL SYSTEMS WITHOUT ADEQUATE SAFETY.
KEEP A tybe ABC FIRE EXTINGUISHER CLOSE. WEAR PROTECTIVE CLOTHING AND GLOVES. EXTINGUISH ALL OPEN FLAMES, TORCHES, CIGARETTES, EVEN CITRONELLA CANDLES AND MOSQUITO COILS. REMOVE INCANDESCENT ELECTRIC DROP LIGHTS FROM THE AREA PRIOR TO REMOVING THE PUMP. NEVER OPEN A FUEL TANK IN AN ENCLOSED (HOME GARAGE) AREA (YOUR DRIVEWAY IS OK, BUT BEST TO BE A DISTANCE AWAY FROM THE HOUSE. ALWAYS HAVE A HELPER PRESENT, EVEN IF JUST FOR MORAL SUPPORT.


DON'T HURT YOURSELF.

I'm not saying you're not versed in common sense, and take these safety concerns into consideration already.
I just want everyone to play it safe. The life you save will be your own!

Tom

[jdl]

If it cranks good, but won't start, have a helper crank the engine while you check for spark at the plugs and injector pulse. If you have neither, then you might suspect a problem with the cam or crank sensor. Are there any trouble codes? Can't you get some trouble codes by cycling the ignition switch? Anything?

It's my understanding that the computer has to see both the cam and crank signal or the computer won't ground the asd relay. That relay controls voltage for both the coil pack and injectors, among other things. I'm not saying either sensor is faulty, just check them. You could use a jumper on the relay connector, to run voltage to everything the relay controls, but if there is a sensor signal missing, the vehicle still won't start.

If there is spark and injector pulse, it may be a fuel issue. With the key in the on position, can you hear the pump run for a few seconds? If you can't hear it run, then check for B+ and ground at the pump. Can you check fuel pressure? When was the last time you changed the fuel filter?

Got to go.

[RIP]

Just a general thought. Don't get in the habit of shot gunning parts. It will lead you to pain, misery, and a depleted bank account. Prove the part is bad before you change it. I'll agree there's times when the smoking gun isn't there but, there's always steps you can take to lead you in the right direction.

It very well may be the pump but, 150K miles is no reason to change a fuel pump. There's plenty of Chrysler Minivans out there with 200K+ miles on them with original pumps. jdl is leading you on the right track. If the pump is bad, slantsixiness has saved you some headaches for sure. Remember; spark, fuel, timing. If one is missing you'll go nowhere. Cheers! Spread the word - let us know what you find.

[mshelby]

Thanks for all the great advice.
Hmmm. I did replace the number 6 spark plug and wire since the van has been down. I'll check that out first to make sure I'm getting fire.

[waltham41]

Can you hear the pump running when you turn on your key? Open the gas cap and have someone turn on the key and notice if you hear it or not. As previously said, it isnt necessarily the pump.

[mshelby]

First, thanks for all the great tips. No telling how much money I've saved over the last few years just by getting advice on this forum and doing it myself.

I hadn't thought to check to see if I could hear the fuel pump running. I'll check that out.

I checked the codes using the "check engine" light method. Got 12, 51 & 55.

Autozone's website lists the codes and says that 55 is just the indicator that the "check engine code list cycle has completed.... so no worry there.

The 12 is a little interesting because it is for: "Direct Battery input to PCM was disconnected within the last 50 key-on cycles." Hmmm... my battery has been going dead all the time lately.

The 51 is for: "Fuel system learn air/fuel mixture has been indicated by an abnormally rich correction factor."

So what do you all think?

[slantsixness]

The 12 code always comes up, ignore it.

The 51, though could also be set by not having the engine running. get it to run first, and I think the 51 code will go away once it's been run.

Tom

[mshelby]

Originally Posted by slantsixness

The 12 code always comes up, ignore it.

The 51, though could also be set by not having the engine running. get it to run first, and I think the 51 code will go away once it's been run.

Thanks, I guess this puts me back at the drawing board. I did check the plug and wire I put on and they are solid (It's the #6 plug & wire)

This is the only one I replaced. (I took it to a shop, they hooked it up to a diagnostic and said that this cylnder wasn't firing and it just needed plug and wire - most likely). I drove it home, took out the old plug, put in the new and no it won't start up. it'l crank all day but it won't fire up.

Of course the reason I took it to the shop in the first place was because it kept sputtering and dying. I thought the spark plug issue would have fixed that, but now I can't get it restarted. (argghhh! This is so frustrating!)