Getting MAF sensor bad problem...not MAF sensor.

[Denlan]

I have a problem with my 99 GTP. It first happened out of the blue. I was driving on a rather hot day and the car just died...no warning, just turned off. I couldn't get it started for over 5 hrs. Had it towed to a Midas (I was out of town) and stayed overnight until it opened in the morning. In the morning the car started just fine and the CEL wasn't on. It took 1.5 hrs of straight idle running in the parking lot before it happened again. This time it was scanned and came back as a MAF sensor problem. It was replaced. 2 days later it happened again, but didn't die, just real rough (wanting to die). I returned it to Midas and they warrantee replaced it again. As I was pulling out of the parking lot it happened a third time...ugh! Midas said they didn't have a clue, but recommended a place that was had some really sharp mechanics that might help. They played around and thought they had found the issue in the harness to the MAF sensor. 1 day later, it happened again. I am pulling my hair out here, and my pocket book isn't happy either! So I guess my question here is, what is happening here? I know cars, I just don't have any ideas here. What else would trigger a MAF alarm?

Here's an overview of what has happened up to this point:

1. Replaced MAF sensor (twice)
2. Replaced Harness to MAF sensor.

I do have a K&N filter, but I have had it since 2000 miles (I am at 60000 now). I have heard this might cause a problem, but after I replaced the MAF sensor for the first time the problem reoccured a few days later. After replacing it the second time it happened right away. I doubt that the oil is the reason for that.

I am pulling my hair out, and actually bringing it to the dealer (who sounded baffled on the phone too). I hate not being able to fix this on my own...sigh. I started out out of ideas and am still that way...along with every other mechanic I bring it to.

[BNaylor]

Don't feel bad, a lot of us have been through similar problems.

Do not be surprised if both MAF sensors already replaced are bad. I've seen people go through 3 to 4 of them to get one that works.

Another problem I have seen with consistent MAF sensor errors is a defective PCM module so unless it has been changed it cannot be ruled out. The reference voltage feeding the MAF comes from the PCM and the MAF will return specific performance values back in the form of frequency for the PCM to look at. Also, it would help to ohm out the wires from the MAF harness to the PCM and make sure there is continuity.

Further note: MAF sensors at the dealer or Autozone are not new but remanufactured so that explains the high failure rate. Also, make sure it is for your model '99 GTP. The MAF for a '97 -'98 will not work on a '99 properly. Parts stores have a tendency to mix them up and think all GP models are the same. That is not the case.

'99 GTP MAF sensor - AC Delco part #213-1617

[maxwedge]

In essence I agree with BNaylor, but what is the code, also if the maf fails there is a default back up value that would normally allow the car to run maybe to 20, rarely have I seen the maf kill the engine completely, anbody with some different experiences with failed mafs chime in here, this is interesting. If the pcm sees no reading from the maf yet sees the engine is running, the pcm would normally go to default?

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by maxwedge

In essence I agree with BNaylor, but what is the code, also if the maf fails there is a default back up value that would normally allow the car to run maybe to 20, rarely have I seen the maf kill the engine completely, anbody with some different experiences with failed mafs chime in here, this is interesting. If the pcm sees no reading from the maf yet sees the engine is running, the pcm would normally go to default?

Hey Max, Happy New Year! The codes would be helpful. I've seen and had MAF sensors kill the engine...affects idle and overall driveability. GTP supercharged models are especially sensitive to the MAF sensor versus the NA 3800. When the MAF sensor went bad in my wife's Regal LS (Series II 3800) it would not idle and the engine would severely misfire around 3000 - 4000 rpms. I had to keep the idle around 1200 rpms manually or the engine would stall.

Good point on default. The only way to force the PCM to go to default for pre-calculated MAF values is to totally disconnect the MAF sensor. The car should run properly with only reduced fuel economy. We ran her Regal for two weeks with the MAF disconnected. I had a nightmare with Autozone A1 Cardone MAF sensors. The two I got from them were defective. I eventually had to go to a boneyard and pull one off the same year and model Regal. Good deal at $40.00. And the part numbers matched so I knew I got the right one.

On my GTP I had a bad MAF one time. It gave a SES light and DTC error code of P0101 performance error code. That was due to the CAI with K&N oiled filter. I cleaned it up and it worked fine for a few weeks and then I had to replace it.

Checkout this link Max. One of my best to date. This guy with a L67 Regal GS was dead in the water at a shopping mall on the weekend.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...&highlight=maf

[touseman]

Denlan, Please keep us updated on the situation. I am going through the same problem. I have had just a regular filter in there and am experiencing the same problem. I am leaning toward the PCM, but we'll just have to wait and see.

[richtazz]

I agree with Bnaylor that if you bought an aftermarket MAF made by A-1 cardone, there is a good chance it's junk. The ones by Standard Motor Products are better, but not much. Get a Delco one, buy a paper element filter (to eliminate the K&N oil variable) and see what happens. If the Delco MAF holds up, you can try re-installing the K&N and if it goes out again, you found the problem.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by richtazz

I agree with Bnaylor that if you bought an aftermarket MAF made by A-1 cardone, there is a good chance it's junk. The ones by Standard Motor Products are better, but not much. Get a Delco one, buy a paper element filter (to eliminate the K&N oil variable) and see what happens. If the Delco MAF holds up, you can try re-installing the K&N and if it goes out again, you found the problem.

You know sometmes I just hate it when people agree with me.

But I'll make exceptions in the case of Rich and Max.

[richtazz]

I'll try to not make a habit of it, ok Bob?

[jatchis]

I went through 3 "new defective" A-1 Cardone refurbished MAF sensors before I finally ordered a new one, and it fixed my problem. 2000 GTP, and I had the exact same initial symptom .... the car died in traffic, and would not restart for about 10 minutes. After that it ran, but surged at around 2000 rpm, and would almost die at idle.

Since replacing the MAF with a NEW (not refurb) over a month ago, I have not had any additional problems.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by jatchis

I went through 3 "new defective" A-1 Cardone refurbished MAF sensors before I finally ordered a new one, and it fixed my problem. 2000 GTP, and I had the exact same initial symptom .... the car died in traffic, and would not restart for about 10 minutes. After that it ran, but surged at around 2000 rpm, and would almost die at idle.

Since replacing the MAF with a NEW (not refurb) over a month ago, I have not had any additional problems.

Welcome to the MAF sensor club. On my GTP, I took mine a step further and removed the stock MAF sensor frm the throttle body and sealed the opening up. I installed a ZZP Stage 1 72mm throttle body and installed the MAF sensor at the intake ducting before the throttle body Chevy LS1 style. My aftermarket calibrated MAF sensor has a cold air intake tuneable adjustment to compensate for weather changes throughout the year and works great with my Thrasher CAI.

[maxwedge]

Originally Posted by bnaylor3400

Hey Max, Happy New Year! The codes would be helpful. I've seen and had MAF sensors kill the engine...affects idle and overall driveability. GTP supercharged models are especially sensitive to the MAF sensor versus the NA 3800. When the MAF sensor went bad in my wife's Regal LS (Series II 3800) it would not idle and the engine would severely misfire around 3000 - 4000 rpms. I had to keep the idle around 1200 rpms manually or the engine would stall.

Good point on default. The only way to force the PCM to go to default for pre-calculated MAF values is to totally disconnect the MAF sensor. The car should run properly with only reduced fuel economy. We ran her Regal for two weeks with the MAF disconnected. I had a nightmare with Autozone A1 Cardone MAF sensors. The two I got from them were defective. I eventually had to go to a boneyard and pull one off the same year and model Regal. Good deal at $40.00. And the part numbers matched so I knew I got the right one.

On my GTP I had a bad MAF one time. It gave a SES light and DTC error code of P0101 performance error code. That was due to the CAI with K&N oiled filter. I cleaned it up and it worked fine for a few weeks and then I had to replace it.

Checkout this link Max. One of my best to date. This guy with a L67 Regal GS was dead in the water at a shopping mall on the weekend.
Great, you know what a shop would have charged here, nice when the all the info is forth coming ,a rarity on some of the forums! Nice to bounce around our experiences, been at this for 45 years and learn something everday.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...&highlight=maf

Great, you know what a shop would have charged for this! Nice when all the info is forthcoming, a rarity on some of these forums. Nice to bounce around our experiences, been at this 45 years and still learn something everyday.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by maxwedge

Great, you know what a shop would have charged for this! Nice when all the info is forthcoming, a rarity on some of these forums. Nice to bounce around our experiences, been at this 45 years and still learn something everyday.

I'll second that Max, same here. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks...lol. I still pefer tweaking on a Holley 750 double pumper and getting the timing and advance setup on the old Accel or Mallory distributors. But we have to stay current with the times and technology otherwise it would cost an arm and leg.

[Denlan]

Hi all, still no solution. I broke down and brought it to the dealer, like I had said I might. Don't have the time to screw with it at the moment, if you know what I mean...

I didn't get the exact code, the computer I had hooked up to it did a code translation to say it was the mass air flow sensor. When I pick it up I will ask what the exact code was.

I'll keep you guys informed as to what they find...

D-

[Ratt305]

to tell u the truth not always is it the MAF sensor, but it could be sumthin else in the air induction system thats also causing it. As my instructer always told us, the scan tool does not show the exact problem, it only points u in the right direction. so id take a good look at everything in the air induction. hope everything turns out alright for u. thanx.

[touseman]

Just wondering if your problem was fixed?