KO exhaust?

[stockthirdgen]

Ive been thinking about buying the 2.5 KO and downpipe for my 91 mr2 stock third gen. Ive seen the dyno's on U.S. mr2's, does anybody know if I can expect similiar gains on mine? Any opinions on the KO in general?

[MmXAkira]

Originally Posted by stockthirdgen

Ive been thinking about buying the 2.5 KO and downpipe for my 91 mr2 stock third gen. Ive seen the dyno's on U.S. mr2's, does anybody know if I can expect similiar gains on mine? Any opinions on the KO in general?

first of all....91 MR2's are second gen. not third.

[stockthirdgen]

Originally Posted by MmXAkira

first of all....91 MR2's are second gen. not third.

When I say third gen im refering to the third gen 3sgte motor I have in my 91 mr2. I thought that was made obvious by my complete question (references to the U.S. spec two's), sorry if I confused anyone. I think everyone knows there are only two real generations of MR2's, nobody's going to argue the MR-S as the third are they?
So anybody have input on the KO exhaust on a third gen 3sgte?

[JekylandHyde]

Every car (engine) is going to respond differently to modifications. It is a dnagerous game to expect that he got 20 HP so I will get 20 HP.

For all we know, your ignition could be worn and you will be down 30 rwhp (completely possible).

Regardless of all of that, exhausts are just one part of the path to more power. The power available from doing just an exhaust is not "huge."

Now, if you do exhaust, intake and boost contoller you are going to see some real gains.

And, yes, the MRS is the third generation MR2.
Why would you ever say it wasn't?

[stockthirdgen]

Very true about the gains, thats why im curious about any feedback on it, I plan on getting the KO downpipe also.
I have a GReddy profec boost controller thats been in the box since last April, figured Id put an aftermarket exhaust/downpipe and intercooler on first. Think the Spearco is worth the extra $300 or so over the GReedy? I plan on calling it quits on further engine mods after those additions. I read in a Sport Compact that the GReddy sounds like Darth Vader from inside the car, is the sound really that noticable?
I have to disagree about the MR-S. In most places its sold, including Japan Toyota wouldnt give it the MR2 name because they didnt consider it to be a third generation of the MR2. It was decided it would be called the MR2 Spyder in the U.S. for the soul reason of name recognition, which Toyota believed would be a factor for U.S. buyers.

[JekylandHyde]

The Spearco IC is definitely better than the GReddy,
I'm not really usre how to gauge if it is $300 better.
I went with the GReddy on the 4 turbo dueces I modded.

The "Darth Vader" noice does not come from the IC, it comes fromthe intake. It can be very noticeable depending on your level of mods.

I don't hear it anymore. It's more apparent with the stock turbo.

As for the MRS conversation, I would enjoy reading your reference that says Toyota did not think of the MRS as an MR2. The car was known as the MR2 in the UK, the MR2 Spyder in the US and the MRS in Japan. It's not unusual for manufacturers to use different names on cars sold in different countries.

Acura NSX in the US is actually a Honda NSX in Japan.

[stockthirdgen]

I thought the line about the IC sounding like Darth Vader was odd, I think it was in a S.C. mag from an artical on a MR2 that had Supra tail lights molded in.
I'll try to find the artical on the MR-S. Its in one of my C&D's, gotta to be 97-99. I dont think im misquoting, they might even have sold both cars at the same time there for a year. It's more of a nephew then a son to the MR2. When it came out I went to the dealership and got the brochure, it had all three "mr2'S" next to eachother. It just doesnt fit, the evolution just isnt there. I hope im right about the artical.
Do you think its worth it to get the Spearco if im only planning on the D.P., exhaust, B.Controller as engine mods? Im not even going to put an intake on it, I had an HKS when it was N/A and the noise was too much.

[JekylandHyde]

Without a healthy breathing intake, you will never see the full potential of everything else you are building.

That being said, if you are not doing any type of open-air intake, get the GReddy IC as there would be no justifying the Spearco.

I never bothered with the Spearco and I managed 377 rwhp on the GReddy.

[Touge-MR]

I would invest in the HKS Vein Pressure Converter. Its expensive but worth big power gains in the long run.

[JekylandHyde]

I would highly encourage you to avoid the HKS VPC (vein pressure converter); otherwise known jokingly as the Variable Performance Computer (VPC).

It offers no real benefit as recent testing by two different companies has shown that the difference of having the AFM versus not, has proved to be neglibile.

The VPC is just an expensive way to screw up your idle.

[stockthirdgen]

thanks for the advice guys, if I did decide to put an intake on, what brand is recomended?

[JekylandHyde]

K&N or Apexi will offer the best results.

[Touge-MR]

Originally Posted by JekylandHyde

I would highly encourage you to avoid the HKS VPC (vein pressure converter); otherwise known jokingly as the Variable Performance Computer (VPC).

It offers no real benefit as recent testing by two different companies has shown that the difference of having the AFM versus not, has proved to be neglibile.

The VPC is just an expensive way to screw up your idle.

The VPC offers air/fuel adjustability, as well as different kinds of adjustability offered by a stand-alone ECU, and obviously doesnt cost 1,500 dollars. You may want to look up a book called "How to tune and modify factory ECUs" written by the Motec guys. They have dyno charts showing serious gain, and hailed the VPC as being the "Must have" for the 3SGTE motor for easy tuning.

Also, the 3SGTE AFM can only go so large. To my knowledge they dont sell larger diameter ones either aftermarket or in Japan like say a BMW M3. The EDM version of the M3 motor is equipped with all sorts of upgrades, one being a larger AFM which is a direct bolt-on mod.


EDIT: Heres a little car that uses the VPC.

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0203tur_buschur/

[JekylandHyde]

Originally Posted by Touge-MR

The VPC offers air/fuel adjustability, as well as different kinds of adjustability offered by a stand-alone ECU, and obviously doesnt cost 1,500 dollars.

Have you ever tuned with one? Used one?
I've owned 3 turbo MR2s with VPCs, driven a fourth and have had extensive conversations with Chris Rado and his crew at World Motorsports about the VPC, along with many of the best MR2 tuners in the country.

The VPC is designed to replace the AFM, that is it.
It takes the system from air flow metering to speed-density measuring.

The amount of adjustment on the VPC is mininal and can only done in a broad range. You can not fine tune with a VPC alone.
We used an SAFC to do the actual tuning. The race car you linked to is using "HKS VPC and GCC piggyback." Add up the prices of those items new and compare it to the $1500 price you quoted.
And, no, you will nto get anywhere near the amount of control that a full EMS offers.

The fact is, the AFM is not a serious restriction up to 300 rwhp. This is has been dyno proven by two leading tuners in the MR2 world, ATS Racing and MRControls, on two different occasions within the last 4 months. The AFM is not going to be a significant restriction until well beyond 300 rwhp (like that race car you posted!). That being said, why even think about recommending this unit to someone looking for less 240 rwhp?

If you read what his plans are:

Originally Posted by stockthirdgen

Do you think its worth it to get the Spearco if im only planning on the D.P., exhaust, B.Controller as engine mods? Im not even going to put an intake on it, I had an HKS when it was N/A and the noise was too much.

... a VPC will only add problems, not gains.

[Touge-MR]

Aaaaand you used an AFC. That says enough.

Yes, Buschur Racing made a poor descision in tuning, because compared to Jeff Fazio, they know nothing.

Fine, youre "right" Jeff.