Auto Tranny Trouble 98 sport

[gromittoo]

I have been posting questions about problems with Auto tranny on my 98 neon sport. Shifting is erratic, but varies in severity. The upshift from 2-3 intemitantly is late. Twice it got to the point that the tranny would never go into 3rd.

My fluid appears clean, but has bubbles. When it got real bad the 1st time, it had a lot of bubbles. When it got real bad yesterday, I pulled over, and turned the car off for a few minutes. When I started up, it was much better (Mazaybe the bubbles settled down?)

I decided to call my trusted mechanic to ask if he could change the tranny fluid and filter. He recommended that I should go to a particular privatly owned shop. I took it there, and the mechanic took it for a test ride, with me in the car.

The tranny mechanic believes that the problem is a seal that is failing on the piston that performs the 2-3 shift. This explains why it began rather suddenly. It also explains why it gets bad as I get closer to work (warmer thinner tranny fluid). It also explains the intermittant nature.

My gut feeling is to trust that this mechanic is on the level with his diagnosis. I have had 2 differant very bad experiences with transmission shops in my life, so that is saying something.

The mechanic wants to do a complete rebuild. He tells me that the seals he uses is of an improved design. He expects it to cost in the range of $1100 to $1300, and to take two days.

SOOOOOO....

I would like advice. I already had the head gasket replaced by the dodge dealer 14 months ago. It was covered by an extended warrentee that expired last summer. I hear that the original head gasket was also of a bad design. How many more major repairs will I encounter with this car, that can be traced to "a bad design"?

My neon has 69K on it (my wife bought it new), and I drive about 8K a year. This is the second major repair in two years. I would not have expected this. In the past 20 years, I bought 3 Honda Accords with about his many miles on them, and I drove them into the ground. I got ~100K miles out of each of them, and I never had these types of problems.

QUESTIONS:

- Should I get the tranny rebuild and expect to keep the neon for 10 years?
- Is there a cheaper option to fix the problem, so I can sell the car in good conscience?
- Used tranny?
- Fix just the seal?
- Get the fluid and filter changed, and hope for the best?

[Ilovemyneon]

IMO the Neon is a nice car, but a throwaway car, at least in my case. it isnt worth dumping loads of money into, unless its really customized.

[das2123]

It would be cheaper to put a used tranny on it. You can buy them for around $150-$200 all day long. The HG is the biggest pain for the neon, but like every car, if it isn't taken care of correctly, you may encounter problems. I would change the filter and put in Mopar ATF+4 fluid in there first and see if that solves yuor problem. Filter is $10 and the fluid from the dealer is about $5 and you will need 4 qts. to refill the tranny. There is no gasket around the transmission pan, the dealer just uses RTV, but if you buy the filter, some places will give you a gasket anyway.

*edit* I would not spend $1100 on a rebuilt transmission, unless the shop is a Chysler specialist. The Chysler transmission is very touchy, but can also be very dependable if treated correctly. I know people who have 200,000-300,000 miles on their original tranny.

[gromittoo]

Originally Posted by das2123

It would be cheaper to put a used tranny on it. You can buy them for around $150-$200 all day long. The HG is the biggest pain for the neon, but like every car, if it isn't taken care of correctly, you may encounter problems. I would change the filter and put in Mopar ATF+4 fluid in there first and see if that solves yuor problem. Filter is $10 and the fluid from the dealer is about $5 and you will need 4 qts. to refill the tranny. There is no gasket around the transmission pan, the dealer just uses RTV, but if you buy the filter, some places will give you a gasket anyway.

How much would I expect to pay for an install of a used tranny? I am comfortable doing a lot of work on my cars, but it is too cold here in Philly for me to consider doing a Tranny Transplant on the driveway.

Never heard of the +4 fluid, but it is worth a try. The fact that my problem started suddenly, and comes and goes has me thinking fluid change probably won't help. I have plenty of fluid, and it looks clean, and not burnt.

Still, a filter and fluid change would cost me like $30 and an afternoon to try. If I see peices of gasket (or anything else) on the filter, I will at least know that the technician wasn't foolin with me. It may buy me some time to look for a used tanny.

[RahX]

look and see if there is a big plastic box on the front of the trans with a good sized electrical plug going into the top of it. that is your valve body. i know on the caravans, neons etc (newer) its plastic, some of the older ones werent. anyway those valve bodies leak and cause problems and you can just replace the valve body. you might talk to the guy about it and get a second opinion. the thing is only held on by 3 bolts and it has a gasket on the bottom side of it. it might be easy enough to replace it with one from the junkyard and sell the car.

[das2123]

Originally Posted by gromittoo

How much would I expect to pay for an install of a used tranny? I am comfortable doing a lot of work on my cars, but it is too cold here in Philly for me to consider doing a Tranny Transplant on the driveway. It may buy me some time to look for a used tanny.

Depends on the shop labor wise, but it shouldn't take more than a few hours. If you have the car lift and all that like a shop has, it can be done in minimal time. This forum on neons.org always has car parts for sale. Click the link and browse around for a used tranny if you have time...
http://forums.neons.org/viewforum.ph...2934ecf2e575c0

[growe58]

FWIW, I also live in the Philly area (Montgomery County). My daughter just totalled her 97 Neon with a nasty side impact (luckily no serious injuries, just bumps and bruises). I'm planning on parting out the car and would be happy to sell the transmission and torque converter to you for $150. I believe the car has less than 80,000 miles and we never had any trouble with the transmission (the engine is another story...)

I don't think there are many problems with the transmissions in 1st gen Neons. It's a fairly simple and well tested three speed design, and certainly the Neon doesn't put a very heavy horsepower demand on it. Sounds like you just got unlucky...

Anyway, let me know if you're interested and I'll get you more details.

[gromittoo]

Originally Posted by growe58

FWIW, I also live in the Philly area (Montgomery County). My daughter just totalled her 97 Neon with a nasty side impact (luckily no serious injuries, just bumps and bruises). I'm planning on parting out the car and would be happy to sell the transmission and torque converter to you for $150. I believe the car has less than 80,000 miles and we never had any trouble with the transmission (the engine is another story...)

I don't think there are many problems with the transmissions in 1st gen Neons. It's a fairly simple and well tested three speed design, and certainly the Neon doesn't put a very heavy horsepower demand on it. Sounds like you just got unlucky...

Anyway, let me know if you're interested and I'll get you more details.

I was looking at my 98 DC shop manual for the 98 Neon last night. I wanted to see what was involved in a tranny transplant. It doesn't look too bad, since the engine stays put. THere are two differant gear ratios, which could be an issue.

Then I noticed something big: The fluid is supposed to be changed at 30K! My neon has 69k on it, with the original fluid. I am going to persue a fluid change with fluid from the dealer this weekend. It is quite possible that my fluid is totally spent. The Tranny mechanic may have been correct about the leaking 2-3 servo seal, but it is quite possible that my tiired old fluid is just too thin. New fluid could make a small leak in that seal a moot point.

The only other auto trans car I have ever owned was a 73 Plymouth Fury. That tranny only needed change at 100K (Dexron II?).

As for the used tranny, I am considering it, once I know how a fluid change works out. I sent a private message with my contact info.

[RahX]

old fluid is thicker than new fluid. a leaking seal, especially a pressure seal, is fairly bad no matter the condition of the fluid. 69k is hardly detrimental to a trans w/out a fluid change but its still a dodge tranny and those things can go bad if you look at em wrong.

[das2123]

Originally Posted by RahX

old fluid is thicker than new fluid.

This is based on what? Fluid as it breaks down will thin out. A few things can make fluid thicker like water and/or dirt. But overall, they will get thinner as they breakdown due to degradation or thermal breakdown.

[RahX]

clutch material + heat. heat turns atf into a sludge and the clutch material makes it that much worse. now thats not to say its gonig to come out like molasses, its not. but it will be thicker than normal atf.

[gromittoo]

The thickness of the oil does seem to be related. I typicaly drive 15 miles to work. The problem with shifting from 2-3 seemed to occur after driving at least 10 miles at highway speed, on mornings that were much warmer than the day before.

I called my dealer this morning, to price the fluid and parts. The price for the ATX-4 ($38.35), filter($14.37), Filter gasket(12.59), glue ($3.19) for the Pan gasket (RTF?). With tax, the total would be over $70. I asked the parts guy what it would cost to have it done, and he says they have a package for about $100 (Probably using ATX-3, I assume $15 more for ATX-4). They are open 6 more hours today (Saturday). I am waiting for a call back.

Certainly paying $120 for a fluid change is worth a try, using dealer fluid (I have not found ATX-4 anywhere but the dealer).

If the fluid change doesn't help, then I can try for a used tranny.

[gromittoo]

Well I just picked up the neon from the dealer. They have a $99 specail Transmission Service. I said I wanted ATX-4, and was willing to pay for the differance in price. They didn't charge extra, and there is a checkmark on the receipt where the Tech indicated that ATX-4 was used.

I drove about 10 miles, including some steep hills. It is definitly shifting better than it was. My problems were intermittant, but I can tell there is a differance. Hopefully, this has fixed the problem.

[das2123]

Originally Posted by gromittoo

Well I just picked up the neon from the dealer. They have a $99 specail Transmission Service. I said I wanted ATX-4, and was willing to pay for the differance in price. They didn't charge extra, and there is a checkmark on the receipt where the Tech indicated that ATX-4 was used.

I drove about 10 miles, including some steep hills. It is definitly shifting better than it was. My problems were intermittant, but I can tell there is a differance. Hopefully, this has fixed the problem.

Mopar ATF+4 is a dealer only fluid. The +3 would have have been fine, but the +4 is an upgrade and worth the extra money. Keep us updated on your situation.