98 neon tranny trouble

[gromittoo]

I am hoping for good news, but I suspect I won't. Yesterday, I noticed my 98 neon with 69k miles was shifting kinda late on my way to work. It was fine at lunch, but it came back on my way home. I also noticed that it would be harsh on the downshift from third to 2nd, even to the point of of causing the car to lurch a little from engine braking.

This morning it seemed fine for the 10 miles of my 15 mile trip to work, but then it got real bad in the last 5 miles. I set the cruise for 45mph on a level road, yet the RPM was up around 3400!. I looked at the fluid, and there appears to be enough, but there were bubbles on the dipstick. I know that bubles on the dipstick isn't good, but I don't know what it means.

I read a post about a linkage between the throttle and the tranny that can stick. I am really hoping that something that simple would fix it. The extended warrentee on the car ran out last summer, and I can't afford a new tranny (or a new car) right now.

I have driven Honda Accord 5-speeds for the past 20 years. When my 87 LXI was sent to the junkman last January, we bought a minivan for my wife, and I got her Neon. I miss my 5-speed! I also wish I could get rid of the excessive exhaust noise of the Neon.

Here is where I have to confess. With the price of gas being the way it is, I have caught myself "playing Prius" when I am in stop and go traffic going downhill. This involves putting the transmision in neutral, and turning off the ignition while I coast. A few times, I forgot to take the tranny out of drive, and when I turned the ignition back on, the engine would start again (ooops). On a Manual tranny, this would not do any damage, but I don't think I need to break myself of the Playing Prius habit.

[gromittoo]

"but I don't think I need to break myself of the Playing Prius habit."

Correcction.... I mistyped. I do think I need to break myself of the "Playing Prius" Habit.

[das2123]

Originally Posted by gromittoo

"but I don't think I need to break myself of the Playing Prius habit."
Correcction.... I mistyped. I do think I need to break myself of the "Playing Prius" Habit.

I haven't heard of anyone doing that with an automatic, doesn't seem like a very good/bright idea. The bubbles on the dipstick is probably from overheating. You checked the level and said it was ok, right? What kind of fluid is in there?

Break the habit, check the linkage and maybe tighten and adjust your bands.

[gromittoo]

Originally Posted by das2123

I haven't heard of anyone doing that with an automatic, doesn't seem like a very good/bright idea. The bubbles on the dipstick is probably from overheating. You checked the level and said it was ok, right? What kind of fluid is in there?

Break the habit, check the linkage and maybe tighten and adjust your bands.

When I checked the fluid this morning when I got to work, I looked at it without the engine running. There was fluid, and it did not smell burnt.

At lunch, I tried checkng the fluid the proper way (in Neutral, engine running) There is a "warm" and a "hot" position on the dipstick, but no "cold". Strangly, the radiator fans were turning on and off, even though the engine and radiator were cold, it was 40 degrees out, and the AC was off. Perhaps a wacky coolant tempreture sensor is playing mind games with the PCM. I removed the Pizza box from in front of the radiator, since it is no longer in the 20s around here in Philly.

I drove a few miles, then I did a proper check, with the engine runing, and the tranny in nuetral. The fluid is a little low, but I didn't see as many bubbles this time. The car acted fine while driving around. The fan was acting normal (not running)

Poking around on the net, I learned several things:
1) The bubbles can happen if the filter is clogged, or the fluid is low.
2) The experience of 3400 RPM at 40 mph on level ground I had this morning is consistant with "Limp Mode" (stays in second gear).

I will go get the correct tranny fluid at Pep Boys on the way home today, and top off the fluid. This car has never had any Tranny service, and at 69K and 7.5 years, it may be due for a preventitive tranny service.

[das2123]

Originally Posted by gromittoo

I will go get the correct tranny fluid at Pep Boys on the way home today, and top off the fluid.

Mopar ATF+3 or 4 is all you should put in a Chrysler tranny. There are aftermarket equivalents for the Mopar ATF+ auto trans fluid that meet Chrysler's MS7176D specs:

Citgo ATF type 7176
Esso (Canada) ATF+2 Type 7176
Kendall Type 7176 ATF
Quaker State 7176 ATF
Pennzoil 7176ATF
Texaco Texamatic Fluid CS 7176M
Valvoline ATF for Chrysler Vehicles

Try to get the Mopar stuff if you can, it's a little pricey but worth it!!!!

[neon_rt]

There is no "limp" mode on the 3-speed autos that come in the '98 Neon. The transmission is mechanically controlled except for the lock-up torque converter. You are right that you are in 2nd gear, but limp mode is not the cause.
You mention a pizza box in front of your radiator. The transmission cooler is part of the radiator, i'm wondering if you cooked the transmission by blocking the cooler.

[97 neon]

my filter was clogged on mine but neon rt is right, everything is mechanically controlled on the 95-99 neons

[97 neon]

and get the mopar stuff...not the cheap shit

[gromittoo]

Originally Posted by neon_rt

There is no "limp" mode on the 3-speed autos that come in the '98 Neon. The transmission is mechanically controlled except for the lock-up torque converter. You are right that you are in 2nd gear, but limp mode is not the cause.
You mention a pizza box in front of your radiator. The transmission cooler is part of the radiator, i'm wondering if you cooked the transmission by blocking the cooler.

The Pizza box should not have caused damage since it has never been above 50 degrees, and I have not gone more than 15 miles per trip. Also, the Pizza box does not cover the whole radiator, and I beleive the tranny cooler is on the bottom where there was no Cardboard. Also, there has not been any "Hot oil" smell coming from the car during any of this. The fluid looks nice and pink, no burned smell.

I removed the Pizza box anyway, since it was in the low 40s yesterday The Pizza box really helps warm up the car faster when the tempreture is in the teens. I don't think that my car is unuasually slow to heat up, I just like to have heat sooner. I have made sure that the Car has had regualar cooling flushes.

I also added 1/2 quart of fluid last night. I used Quaker State For Chrysler Vehicles. So far, things seem good. I checked the level when I arrived at work today, and I looked fine. The Fluid had a maybe two or three bubbles on the dipstick, and there was enough fluid. I still think that I should get a tranny filter and fluid change.

As for the "Limp" mode experience I had on Thrusday coming into work, I really do think that there is something wrong with a sensor feeding input to the Tranny. I find it really odd that when I started the car at lunch on thursday, that the cooling fan was going off and on a 15 second intervals (A/C definitly off), even though the car had sat for at least 3 hours in 40 degree weather. It has never done that before. I used to have to chceck the oil frequently when I had the classic oil leaks (now fixed), and I never heard the fan on unless the engine was noticably warm ort the AC was on.

[gromittoo]

Originally Posted by 97 neon

and get the mopar stuff...not the cheap shit

The stuff I bought at Pep Boys is:

Quaker State ATF+3 Automatic Transmission Fluid for most Chrysler Vehicles.

It only cost about $2.98, is this OK, or is this "Cheap Stuff"? This was all that they had, that mentioned Chysler vehicles.

[neon_rt]

The AC system will cyle on and off every few seconds if the heater control is set in the defrost setting.
There are instructions on the internet to over ride this setting. I did this on my '98 R/T.

[gromittoo]

Originally Posted by neon_rt

There is no "limp" mode on the 3-speed autos that come in the '98 Neon. The transmission is mechanically controlled except for the lock-up torque converter. You are right that you are in 2nd gear, but limp mode is not the cause.
You mention a pizza box in front of your radiator. The transmission cooler is part of the radiator, i'm wondering if you cooked the transmission by blocking the cooler.

Question then... I have the DOHC Highline Sport model. Are you saying there is no PCM that controls this tranny? I may be confusing stuff I read for my 01 Voyger. I have shop manuals for both vehicles.

I am surprised that you mention a Lock up converter. It sure doesn't feel like this car has one on the highway. When I hit the Cruise set button, I always see a spike on the tach. I would not expect that if the TC were locked. It has done this since new.

[gromittoo]

Originally Posted by neon_rt

The AC system will cyle on and off every few seconds if the heater control is set in the defrost setting.
There are instructions on the internet to over ride this setting. I did this on my '98 R/T.

This cycling will occur even with the fan in the "off" position? I made sure that the fan was in the off position, before making the conclusion that there was no AC.

The fan speed switch has a "blue" side and a "white" side. I have noticed that I get better defrosting when using the "blue" side vs. the white side. That would imply that the AC is not wired to the defrost postion. It is common for the Defrost position to turn on the AC, but I really don't think my Neon does it.

BTW: I would really like to choke the guy that programmed the BCM in the Voyager. If I the knob is in the defrost position, the BCM forces the system out of Recirculate mode. It is true that if you have No AC, that you get better defrosting with fresh air, but the oposite is true when you turn on the AC. When I drive past a garbage dump or a stinky marsh in the rain, I find myself holding the recirculate button on! The NEON has a mechanical Fresh / Recirc knob, so the neon allows recirculate and defrost.

[das2123]

Originally Posted by gromittoo

The fan speed switch has a "blue" side and a "white" side. I have noticed that I get better defrosting when using the "blue" side vs. the white side. That would imply that the AC is not wired to the defrost postion. It is common for the Defrost position to turn on the AC, but I really don't think my Neon does it.

When you have the defrost on it will use the A/C, so you should notice a load on your engine while using the defrost.

Originally Posted by gromittoo

The stuff I bought at Pep Boys is:Quaker State ATF+3 Automatic Transmission Fluid for most Chrysler Vehicles.It only cost about $2.98, is this OK, or is this "Cheap Stuff"? This was all that they had, that mentioned Chysler vehicles.

As long as it is type 7176 you should be good.

[gromittoo]

Originally Posted by das2123

When you have the defrost on it will use the A/C, so you should notice a load on your engine while using the defrost.

As long as it is type 7176 you should be good.

Well I'l be a horses monkey....

At lunch, I checked, and yes my AC does come on if in Defrost and any Fan position except off. I guess I was wrong yesterday when I concluded that the radiator fan was coming on with the vent fan in the off position. It must have been in the lowest setting in the "white" section.

As far as the Quaker State tranny fluid, the bottle doesn't 7176 anywhere on it.