water/alky injection in na vehicles

[beef_bourito]

What kind of gains are to be expected in an na vehicle running alcohol or water injection?

Also, what kind of improvements can be made to the engine when on injection, not forced induction because there you can raise boost. i know you can raise compression, advance timing a bit, and it cools air so you can inject more fuel, anything else?

[TheSilentChamber]

Your not really going to see any effect. Your not compressing the air so its not going to heat up any more than the ambient tempature outside.

[beef_bourito]

but you're cooling the air down, it's just like putting on a cold air intake but it cools more than a CAI.

[-Jayson-]

Originally Posted by beef_bourito

but you're cooling the air down, it's just like putting on a cold air intake but it cools more than a CAI.

nope, the water temp is gonna be the same temp as the air temp. All its gonna do is raise your octane a bit, but that wont give you any more power.

Water injection is designed to cool a much higher air temp with the air temp water. It doesnt work for much in a NA ca, at most the intake temp might drop 1-2F, not like you will see a performance gain from that.

Unless your running high compression, this wont help you.

[beef_bourito]

are you sure? i thought that when you misted water it absorbed heat energy, what about alcohol, wouldn't that cool the intake temperature alot? top alcohol drag racers apparently have some frost on their intakes after a quarter mile run.

[TheSilentChamber]

It will lower your intake temp some but its not going to be enough to tell a big difference. Kinda like when you drive your car when its 50 degrees out and when its 90 degree, not enough differnce to take notice to.

[kachok25]

water does absorb heat don't listen to that Jayson guy he does not know what he is talkin about, it will drop your intake temps by about 20-30 degrees depending on humidity, not enough to make any kind of huge differnece, but if you advance your timing you might see a small increase in power.

[beef_bourito]

but you could do some things that would make noticeable improvements to performance. so i guess alone alcohol or water injection doesn't do much but it opens up more potential for the engine.

[kachok25]

Originally Posted by beef_bourito

but you could do some things that would make noticeable improvements to performance. so i guess alone alcohol or water injection doesn't do much but it opens up more potential for the engine.

Not for an NA engine read my last post on my thread if you want to see what is can do for a forced induction engine.

[kachok25]

the alcohol will do some good though seeing as it carries oxagen in with it.

[TheSilentChamber]

If you want to drop your intake temps get a Co2 bulb.

[beef_bourito]

it doesn't carry enough to burn itself though, alcohol is still a fuel and you'll run rich if you can't injest enough oxygen. if it's methanol, it has one hydroxyl, it needs an extra molecule and a half of oxygen to burn. it in istelf doesn't add oxygen to the combustion chamber like nitrous oxide.

[Schister66]

you don't notice a huge power gain in the winter....that's all you would be similuting. Its different when it comes to turbo cars. The air is compressed and that creates heat. If you can cool the air to 90F you're doing good and that's where Water/Alcohol injection tends to help.

The Subaru STi has water injection so that the intercooler doesn't heat soak so bad....which reduces teh efficiency.

[beef_bourito]

the subaru has a nozle that sprays water onto the intercooler, not into the intake, very different. anyways i already stated that it probably wouldn't be worth it unless you did something else that required lower intake temps, such as higher compression, something that would yield noticeable gains. lets say you had a 10:1 cr engine that was on the verge of knocking, raising the cr to 12:1 and advancing the ignition timing would yield noticeable gains but you would destroy your engine with detonation. if you lowered intake temps, you could do this, have the benifits of the modifications and of the lowered intake temps.

[curtis73]

Water/Alky injection on an NA motor can have great benefits. You can increase compression on pump gas and reap the benefits of the increased tolerance that the water and alky provide. Neither will add much power, but the fact that you can run more compression with a full spark advance sure helps.