'96 Windstar, is it worth repairing

[lkeeble]

I have had a problem for over a year now with slightly rough idling with my '96 windstar.

I have had my mechanic (who I trust) check various things - he has replaced plugs/wires, cleaned fuel injectors, replaced PCV valve, checked for vacuum leaks. It seemed like the problem got a bit better with the defrost or air on.

Recently the problem has gotten worse and once in a while the van will stall when coming to a standstill at a red light (rarely).

So, off to the mechanic again. He again checked for the things mentioned above once again, but no luck fixing the issue. Finally, he did an engine test that told him that there is coolant leaking into the engine. He says that he is sure that replacing the head gasket will fix the problem. This is going to be about $1000 when all is said and done.

Question: is this worth the investment to fix? The van itself has 160k miles. I have had the van its whole life and have maintained it well. I don't like car payments and the van isn't driven much any more (used to commute every day in it but not any more). Is 160k miles getting to the end of the road (so to speak) for this van? Or, does it have enough life left in it to justify this repair?

Thanks for any help,

-Lou

[LeSabre97mint]

Lou

My 95 has 208,000+ on it. Your 96 may be worth repairing depending on what has been done in the past. What parts have been replaced? How well it's been maintained. Do you like it? What condition of a vehical can you get for 1000.00?

I'm sure others will have some ideas for you.

Regards

Dan

[lkeeble]

Originally Posted by LeSabre97mint

Lou

My 95 has 208,000+ on it. Your 96 may be worth repairing depending on what has been done in the past. What parts have been replaced? How well it's been maintained. Do you like it? What condition of a vehical can you get for 1000.00?

I'm sure others will have some ideas for you.

Regards

Dan

Thanks for the reply, Dan.

It has been maintained very well, oil changed every 5k miles (always), into the mechanic for check lights, etc. Not much has gone wrong really so far on this van.

There is a little rust on the inside bottom of the driver/pass door, but nothing too serious. I like the van. I am leaning toward repairing it because even if I get another used vehicle (I don't want new) that can also have its own set of problems, I figure...

The one thing I am a bit worried about is the chance that I pay to get it fixed and the problem doesn't go away, but like I said my mechanic is usually accurate when he diagnoses problems.

[busboy4]

Hi Lou

Has your Mech said anything about the Idle Air Controller? Many here have dealt with an idling problem by cleaning and or replacing it. You notice a better idle with air or defrost as the PCM "pumps up" the idle a bit to compensate for the load of the A/C.

Also, it has been noted here many times that the '95's were much more prone to head gasket issues than the later years. Lower intake manifold gaskets were more of an issue, and I and others have changed those - I cannot conclusively tell you that it rid me of my issue of coolant in the oil yet, as it is a recent repair.

I would not dive into a $1000 idea without conclusive evidence of head gasket issues - compression tests etc.

Best of luck

[lkeeble]

Originally Posted by busboy4

Hi Lou

Has your Mech said anything about the Idle Air Controller? Many here have dealt with an idling problem by cleaning and or replacing it. You notice a better idle with air or defrost as the PCM "pumps up" the idle a bit to compensate for the load of the A/C.

Also, it has been noted here many times that the '95's were much more prone to head gasket issues than the later years. Lower intake manifold gaskets were more of an issue, and I and others have changed those - I cannot conclusively tell you that it rid me of my issue of coolant in the oil yet, as it is a recent repair.

I would not dive into a $1000 idea without conclusive evidence of head gasket issues - compression tests etc.

Best of luck

Thanks. I am pretty sure my mechanic replaced the IAC some time ago, and it didn't fix the issue. Today he did some kind of test (pressurizing...can't remember exactly what it was) and it showed the head gasket issue.

He did mention to me that he has NEVER had to replace a head gasket on a '96 (it's a 3.8L) but has replaced several on '95 - which matches with what you were saying. So he was surprised that this was the issue. In fact he said he only did that test on the recommendation of another mechanic friend of his who thought it would be worth a try. He had spent almost a week trying to finally get to the bottom of the issue. He has replaced the lower intake manifold gasket already some time ago.

One other option that I thought of while I was on the phone with my mechanic was a complete replacement of the engine, since the head gasket replacement job is so expensive. He said a rebuilt engine would run around $1800. So not quite double the head gasket repair. I wonder if that is a worthwhile alternative..?

[96wWindstar180K]

lkeeble Also possible problem with clogged EGR ports. A Quick test would be to remove the vacume line from te EGR valve and plug the vacume line. See if the idle gets better. You will find it turns on the check engine light but dont wory it can be reset by your mechanic or by diconnecting the battery for five minutes. If the idle does not improve go to next step. Check compression. If you decide to do the head gasket the intake manifold gasket will be replaced in the process. If I were you and I had the head off anyway I would have the valve seals replaced and the valve seats ground or at least checked. Also I would probaley have the other head done at the same time. You have he engine torn down that far anyway. First though confirm the head gasket is the problem. Just my opinion.

[lkeeble]

Originally Posted by 96wWindstar180K

lkeeble Also possible problem with clogged EGR ports. A Quick test would be to remove the vacume line from te EGR valve and plug the vacume line. See if the idle gets better. You will find it turns on the check engine light but dont wory it can be reset by your mechanic or by diconnecting the battery for five minutes. If the idle does not improve go to next step. Check compression. If you decide to do the head gasket the intake manifold gasket will be replaced in the process. If I were you and I had the head off anyway I would have the valve seals replaced and the valve seats ground or at least checked. Also I would probaley have the other head done at the same time. You have he engine torn down that far anyway. First though confirm the head gasket is the problem. Just my opinion.

Thanks - I am 95% sure he checked the EGR ports, but will verify that.

[lkeeble]

Quick update:

I have verified that my mechanic checked all the things suggested by the people on this thread. I gave him the go-ahead to change the head gasket (both heads). Should be done around Tuesday next week. Thanks for all the help. Will try to remember to post an update...

-Lou

[wiswind]

Your mechanic not having had to replace a head gasket on a '96 is what I have heard from others.
The '95 was a bad head gasket year, and they did make improvements for the '96 and newer to address this.
I have a '96, and had coolant leakage into the cylinder(s).
I replaced the lower intake manifold gaskets, and have had no coolant usage since the job was done.
Now November, job was done in March.
Lower intake manifold gaskets IS a common failure on many vehicles, including the Windstar.
I would give your mechanic a call and ask him about the lower intake manifold gaskets.
I would also use ONLY genuine FORD gaskets, as they have been improved from original to improve reliability.
Of course, replacement of the Head gaskets REQUIRES new lower intake manifold gaskets.
The lower intake manifold gaskets MUST be replaced whenever the lower intake manifold is removed.
The upper intake manifold gaskets are re-usable.

If the head is serviced (planed), use 4mm lower intake manifold gaskets.
If the head has NOT been serviced, use 3mm lower intake manifold gaskets.
They should also check and clean, if needed, the EGR ports, as they will have them exposed.

I have pictures of the lower intake manifold gasket job in my pictures.

[Winny_the_Pooh]

Like Wiswind, on my '96 with the 3.8L, the loss of coolant was due to the lower intake gasket. This is a much easier repair than the head gasket. I did a leak down test (per 12ounce's suggestion) and this confirmed no head gasket leak. Once I got the lower intake off, it was obvious where the gasket damage was (near #1 ports into head - I would guess that the #4 ports are also susceptible due to the gasket design).

Later, I had loss of coolant due to the timing chain cover but that caused no rough idle, like the intake gasket did.