The Enigmatic American Consciousness

[ct91rs]

It evades my understanding how the American population in general seems much more callous to the death and suffering of those affected by this latest tragedy.

After Sept. 11th, you could hardly avoid being exposed to grief and sympathy displayed by so many. I had to wonder why people seemed so much more affected by this event than countless others. Is the American life that much more important than the lives of others around the world? Not long before Sept. 11th there were massive earthquakes in East Asia killing 10's of thousands of people. The average American citizen didn't seem overly concerned. Then there was an attack on the twin towers. I came to find many people who expressed deep sorrow over this, although they personally knew no one directly affected or involved in this calamity.

Death toll of Sept. 11th 3,000+
Estimated death toll of New Orleans alone 10,000+

Sure there seems to be genuine concern, but not the same level. Granted this tragedy was not due to terrorists attacts, but I believe that may make this situation more reprehensible given the foreknowledge of events, which could have prevented much more of the deaths and injuries.

Planning for and organizing help for this natural disaster was unacceptable, who will be held accountable, and where is the 9/11 type outcry?

Why such a disparity?

[tenguzero]

Oh, there's most certainly outcry going on -- surely you've been watching the news? The people want explanations, investigations, accountability, and justice. Nightly newscasts are carrying everything from racial-based claims, to what the state did wrong, the feds did wrong, and the people did wrong (in the case of violent looters.) The result of the 9/11 catastrophy was the overhaul of an entire intelligence, accountability, aid, and response system from the ground up. The result of the New Orleans catastrophy is a sharp, heated look at why this supposedly revamped system, for all intents and purposes, failed. The response from the public and the world at large is seemingly greater than even that of 9/11 (even CUBA, the country politicians love to hate, is offering medical aid.) People across the country are taking survivors into their homes, sending large sums of money, and volunteering their time away from family and a paycheck to help in aid efforts.

The people are more than willing to help in any way they can, but there's also a majority out there that want to make sure this tragedy doesn't go unnaccounted for.

Don't forget, a hurricane was merely the catalyst -- the damage was done by the flooding from poorly analyzed and constructed levees, ensuing violence, and slow response -- ALL human controllable factors.

[thrasher]

As long as it doesn't affect Americans directly, it's not viewed as a big deal. 30,000 innocents killed largely by American actions in Iraq, hundreds of thousands dead in the Tsunami all the way in Asia, no reason to care about such things that don't really impact your life. I'm sorry to say that as far as tragedies go, 9/11 is weak in comparison to any other large scale catastrophe, including Katrina. IMO, we (americans) need to pull our collective heads out of our asses and quit being so damn selfish for a change.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by thrasher

As long as it doesn't affect Americans directly, it's not viewed as a big deal. 30,000 innocents killed largely by American actions in Iraq, hundreds of thousands dead in the Tsunami all the way in Asia, no reason to care about such things that don't really impact your life. I'm sorry to say that as far as tragedies go, 9/11 is weak in comparison to any other large scale catastrophe, including Katrina. IMO, we (americans) need to pull our collective heads out of our asses and quit being so damn selfish for a change.

Maybe in your area of town it's like that but don't make a blanket judgement on the whole US.

As for your 30K people killed by the US I woiuld like to see some proof that shows who killed who first! And I doubt all 30,000 were innocent.

I guess you didn't see the out pouring of aid the US made to aid the tsunami victims. I guess you didn't see Clinton and Bush raising money to help the Tsunami victims.

As far as 9/11 being weak is off base.

Comparing 9-11 to New Orleans is comparing apples to oranges.

[ct91rs]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

As far as 9/11 being weak is off base.

It's all about relativity man. In comparison to tens of thousands of deaths, 3,000 does not bare the same significance, unless their lives were more important...

Originally Posted by Flatrater

Comparing 9-11 to New Orleans is comparing apples to oranges.

No, it's not my friend.

These events are not too different as to make people's reactions to them incompariable. Only that one event was meticulously planned out to create great harm, and the other was the cause of a natural event. It's about destruction, suffering, and loss of life, just a different means leading to the same end.

Thrasher actually made a very poignant statement, one that more American's should ponder.

[YogsVR4]

9/11 and Katrina are wholly different Not remotely close.

As for Americans being callous towards other tragedies. I might remind you that the US rused to the aid of the tsunami victims. We rush to the aid of those in need all over the world. The US - both as a government entity and as private citizens - donate more time, money and materials then any other country on the planet. Maybe some of you are mistaken and its you that have your heads up your ass and not the rest of the US population.

[thrasher]

It's nice to think that the US cares about the rest of the world. But that's simply not realistic. There has been a drastic shift towards unilateralism in recent years, especially following 9/11. How often do we hear about the tsunami anymore? How often do we hear about the 30,000 innocent Iraqi's killed over the last 2 years? Now how often do we hear about the catastrophic tragedy that was 9/11? It would be a bit of an understatement to say that a disparity exists there.

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by thrasher

It's nice to think that the US cares about the rest of the world. But that's simply not realistic. There has been a drastic shift towards unilateralism in recent years, especially following 9/11. How often do we hear about the tsunami anymore?

I read about it several times a week. Perhaps its your choice of news organizations that is lacking in coverage.

How often do we hear about the 30,000 innocent Iraqi's killed over the last 2 years?

Interesting choice of adjectives. We, of course, hear about the casualties in Iraq - both civilian and military. Its on 24/7 and in the paper everyday. What you are looking for is a particular point of view that matches your own. Without it you appear to claim that we do not read anything about it.

Now how often do we hear about the catastrophic tragedy that was 9/11? It would be a bit of an understatement to say that a disparity exists there.

Of course we hear about it alot. The train bombings in Madrid are in the Spanish papers all the time. The London bombings are in their papers all the time. You are transposing that the information isn't there on the fact there are people who don't pay any attention to any current events. The same people who don't know whats going on in the rest of the world also don't know whats going on in their own back yard.

Its a failing that more people don't care about the event in the world, but thats not the same as saying we are indifferent to the tragedies that happen in other countries.


Lastly, as for the unilatiralism; you may want to check up on what that term really means. What has the government done that was unilateral? The US has not acted alone on anything. Let me head off Iraq by pointing out Britian (along with dozens of others) and Kyoto - Austrailia (among others). ABM might come to mind but I'll point out two weaknesses in that one. The treaty was with the USSR which doesn't exist (why does everyone assume the USSR meant Russis - why not the Ukraine or Estonia, Georgia etc) and since a treaty is only between two people, its hard not to act unilatirally.

[lamehonda]

I freaking care. I am trying to bum a ride with a local group down to texas to help feed the people down in the shelters.

TEXAS RULES!!!!

[tenguzero]

People most definately care about these catastrophies. South of me in Massachusetts, they already have a few THOUSAND people who have volunteered to take in the victims. I'm positive my state of New Hampshire is easily over the $1 million mark for donations. Americans donated something like $18 million toward the tsunami relief efforts (that's a LOT of money over there.) And I don't know anyone who's mood doesn't immediately change when footage of the WTC tragedy is shown. The majority of Americans DO care about humanitarian issues (and I guarantee Sept. 11th won't go by without acknowledgement from the media.)

The government may be a different issue though. I know they're still human, and I know many feds do care just like the rest of us, but I think there's something that happens when the government as a whole tries to function. Priorities get messed up, loopholes open for the less sympathetic people who are looking to forward their own agenda, and to a larger degree than people assume, I think bigotry becomes a major factor. Which was exactly why the Dept. of Homeland Security was supposedly created, to reign in the rampant competition and inter-departmental conflicts that (for instance) muddled up intellignece sharing between said departments. Unfortunately, there's obviously still some major issues with this government prioritizing -- and (like I said earlier) there's probably a good deal of racism going around the corridors of the government as well, particularly toward the Arab world. Which may be why some are contending right now that there was possible race/class issues involved with New Orleans. I can't say for sure (and I personally don't think that there was an anti-black agenda with New Orleans aid) but I do still feel this government and it's leaders have got a lot of their priorities royally screwed up right now, and it reflects on the rest of us as a country.

[ct91rs]

Originally Posted by tenguzero

I know they're still human

Have you actually seen DNA evidence proving that about Cheney?

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by thrasher

It's nice to think that the US cares about the rest of the world. But that's simply not realistic. There has been a drastic shift towards unilateralism in recent years, especially following 9/11. How often do we hear about the tsunami anymore? How often do we hear about the 30,000 innocent Iraqi's killed over the last 2 years? Now how often do we hear about the catastrophic tragedy that was 9/11? It would be a bit of an understatement to say that a disparity exists there.

I'm still waiting for proof on the 30,000 "INNOCENT" lives taken by the US in Iraq.

[thrasher]

I read about it several times a week. Perhaps its your choice of news organizations that is lacking in coverage.

It seems to me, as already stated, that 9/11 is still given much heavier coverage than other even more recent catastophic events. Which I think even you could not debate. Media coverage reflects public discourse to a large degree. The problem isn't the media source, it's a social/cultural problem. And I can GUARANTEE you that in 5 years, everyone in this country will still be talking about 9/11. Not so for other various tragedies.

Interesting choice of adjectives. We, of course, hear about the casualties in Iraq - both civilian and military. Its on 24/7 and in the paper everyday. What you are looking for is a particular point of view that matches your own. Without it you appear to claim that we do not read anything about it.

I don't understand what you're getting at here, so I don't have a rebuttal.

Of course we hear about it alot. The train bombings in Madrid are in the Spanish papers all the time. The London bombings are in their papers all the time. You are transposing that the information isn't there on the fact there are people who don't pay any attention to any current events. The same people who don't know whats going on in the rest of the world also don't know whats going on in their own back yard.

Its a failing that more people don't care about the event in the world, but thats not the same as saying we are indifferent to the tragedies that happen in other countries.

If that's true then why is our defense budget so outrageous? Why are we allowing our own soldiers to die in Iraq fighting terror and rebuilding the oilfield infrastructure instead of modernizing and improving the advance warning systems for tsunamis in poor Asian countries? I guess part of it has to do with our elected leaders. But then again, they're elected by someone, and I think that would be the American people. Officials are elected based on their values and priorities, so we would have to assume that something (fighting terror?) is at the top of the priority list for many Americans. It was easily the most talked about topic during the debates.

I'm still waiting for proof on the 30,000 "INNOCENT" lives taken by the US in Iraq

What do you want, a list of whole bunch of websites that say 30,000 people? If you don't believe me now, you won't when I put up their URL's. Just so you know, there are some estimates that put the number over 100,000. One such study was done by a John Hopkins school, can't remember which one, but that one estimated right at 100,000. The exact number is inconsequential. The point is, far more innocents have died in Iraq than dies on 9/11. Yet nobody, in the US at least, seems to care. Out of sight, out of mind.

[ct91rs]

Likely estimates of civilian casualties: minimum - 24,508, maximum - 27,718. That figure does not include insergents or Iraqi military personel killed. I'm sure that not all of them were completely innocent bystanders, but rest assured the vast majority were. Back to thrashers main point: the American public, in general, doesn't show sorrow over their deaths.

[ct91rs]

Here's a short list of a few sites with articles describing the formentioned. and they're not some hack column or post by cousin Ned the pacifist, or special interest groups.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/me...9/iraq.deaths/
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6596
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Oct28.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4694123.stm
http://www.time.com/time/columnist/k...romoid=rss_top

You can't deny the credibility of these sites and sources. Many of the numbers detailed in the above reports are not up to date, some two years old.

Our government would prefer we didn't know, but it's real.