1.0L 5spd 38 mpg w/o AC -- SO WEAK IT'S DANGEROUS TO DRIVE ON HIGHWWAY

[ssybert]

ok, I've got a 96 1.0L 2dr 5spd with 60k on the engine and 60k on the transmission. Compression looks good, Fuel pressure is dead on perfect and a recent tune up with plugs, wires, rotor, cap. I'm only able to get about 38mpg (75mph +/- 70% highway) w/o the AC on and no more than 35mpg WITH it on.

when I drive, I probably drive 30% or more of the time with the pedal on the FLOOR trying to maintain 70-75. Hills, forget it. I drop to about 60-65 at BEST. If I have people in the car, the windows down or the AC on it's even worse. Hill starts require me to bring the engine up over 3k and smoke the clutch trying to get the car to move w/o stalling.

I know this car should have ALOT more power. My 93 Xfi had 100psi compression and got the same mileage but has 3x the power.

Anyone have any ideas on this? I''ve read others mentioning timing but can it being off a little do this much?!? I bought the car used and it's been a dog since I bought it. I put in a new tranny, windshield, tires, brakes, wheel bearings... all kinds of stuff. too far into it now to say goodbye.

Anyone else see similar symptoms?

SDcot

[geozukigti]

The 96 was the first year of the OBD-II engine computer standard. They did a REALLY bad job with the fuel maps, and all that good stuff. If it's an automatic, your MPG and problem keeping it goin 70 isn't far-fetched. It's actually about normal. The 1.0L has never been the strongest of engines. If you want it to get a little more power, look into getting one of the advanced timing gears i've mentioned on here before. It'll give it a nice kick in the butt. But, the MPG issue isn't with the car, it's with the ECU program. The 96+ metros never got the mpg the 89-95 cars did. the 89-91 cars were the best, and lightest of them all. Just out of curiousity, are you running stock tires? Also, was the trans from a similar model metro? The 95-99 1.0 metros has a 4.39:1 final drive ratio, to make up for the engine being so weak, and the 13" wheels. If the trans was from a 4cyl engine, that has a 3.83:1 final drive, and will bog like hell on the freeway with the 1.0.

[Infinitrium]

Bad timing very well could make that much of a difference. I'm not sure what the timing is set at the factory for the 96's, but I suggest setting it at 7-8 degrees and see how it goes. Hopefully this'll make it run a lot better. It sounds as if you're mechanically inclined, so if you're willing to splurge a bit, get a performance cam and cam gear from 3techperformance, or the head package (rebuilt head plus your choice of cam) then follow it up with the cam gear and the underdrive pulley, and a larger than stock exhaust if money isn't a concern. . Those would set you back probably 500 not counting the exhaust but that sure would give your Metro a kick in the balls, and would probably help fuel economy a bit too since you wouldn't be flooring it to keep up with traffic.

[Infinitrium]

Bad timing very well could make that much of a difference. I'm not sure what the timing is set at the factory for the 96's, but I suggest setting it at 7-8 degrees and see how it goes. Hopefully this'll make it run a lot better. It sounds as if you're mechanically inclined, so if you're willing to splurge a bit, get a performance cam and cam gear from 3techperformance, or the head package (rebuilt head plus your choice of cam) then follow it up with the cam gear and the underdrive pulley, and a larger than stock exhaust if money isn't a concern. . Those would set you back probably 500 not counting the exhaust but that sure would give your Metro a kick in the balls, and would probably help fuel economy a bit too since you wouldn't be flooring it to keep up with traffic.

[ssybert]

I'd love to get some add-ons for this car but I bought it specifically to counter the cost of running my truck so adding hundreds of dollars in unecessary add-ons will end up defeating the purpose of buying it.

When I replaced the transmission I was only able to find one out of a 4cyl. I remember reading here "any transmission" would fit so I bought it. I never considered the final drive ratio. I'm not SURE it's out of a 4cyl but the yard "thought" it was. It's holding at 3100rpms @ 60mph and 3500 @ 70mph. I dont know if you guys have any formulas to determine final drive from this but those are my numbers. It's a 5speed.

Another thing I noticed is when I'm REAL LOW on gas it's kind of an even worse dog. When I pull in to fill up and open the tank there's SO much pressure I can hear it VERY well decompressing and even feal it rush over my hand. they only happens from empty. After filling it I think I feel an imcrease in power. crazy? I dont know.

What do you guys think?

Scott.

[geozukigti]

Is it an aftermarket gas cap? OBD-II standards actually have a pressure relief valve in the gas cap. If it's a cheapie cap, it may not have the proper mechanism. It really sounds like you got the "big gear" transmission. My metro convertible with a 4.39:1 trans and 15" rims runs about 4300RPM's@70mph. If you encounter a hill, downshifting to 4th won't hurt a bit with the 3.83:1 trans. 4th gear is probably equal to the original transmission's 5th gear. This transmission is actually a lot better for the motor, because it won't be wound up all the time. It'll help the engine last a little longer. The cam timing gear from 3tech is only about $25. It'll give your car the kick in the butt it needs, and most likely give it much better MPG. The cam+cam gear is about $120 I think. http://www.teamswift.net/3tech/
These things should make the car run like a 4cyl on the freeway. And make the engine last a lot longer, cause it's not constantly stressing to produce power.
The other transmissions have a bad habit of making the engines tear up piston rings at 100,000 miles, because it's running at 4000-5000 RPM's constantly.

[ssybert]

So whats the general concensus on the MPG issue? I'm loading down the engine in 5th and causing my own problems? Would crusing on the highway in 4th IMPROVE my economy?

You guys also mention the OBD-II computer was first introduced in 96. Is swapping it out for an OBD-I computer a simple thing to do? Would this bypass all the emissions stuff intorduced with II and give me better economy?

I'll consider these CAM/Timing upgrades. It sounds like it'll make a huge difference. The only thing I'm REALLY looking for is kick a$$ economy. I drool when I read you guys getting 50+ !!! thats all I want. A cheap ride into work :-(

Scott.


Scott.

[Infinitrium]

With those rpm's you're pulling on the highway, yeah it does sound like you're loading down the engine. 4th gear should give you a few extra hundred rpm's, easing the load on the engine and probably giving you better economy. Try adjusting your timing to 8 or 9 degrees, it's free and will give a small increase in power. A cam gear would cost probably 35 shipped to you, and combined with 10 degrees or more of timing advance would really wake up the engine. Check www.teamswift.net and ask there to see if there's anything else you can do to get more mpg out of your car.

[RossT]

My 91 metro had the same symptoms that you had. It was so bad that it had a hard time making it up big hills. After you check the timing, check fuel pres. Mine was a week fuel pump. New pump and all is well.

[{LK} Mario]

Wow, i bought my 1996 geo metro with 91000 miles on it. i get like 45 iles to the gallon and i have done very few mods to it, simply a weapon r intake (for sound) and simple maintnence, wires, plugs, fuel filter, oil filter, ect... and mine has a good bit of pep to it. it pulls like any 4 cylinder i have seen or raced, except for the big 4's like the 2.4 L

[ssybert]

I THINK I FOUND IT!

ok, so I bought a timing light tonight and checked out the timing... It's bouncing between 11* and 6*... kind of all over the place at idle. If I accelerate... WHOA?! It goes waaaaaaaay of the scale... over to what I'd presume is 30* BTDC. This isn't right is it? When I accelerate the timing should be dead-on-balls @ whatever I set it to, right? Is this a timing belt? I hope so. I bought a new one tonight

Someone please tell me this is the root of all my problems

Scott.

[Crvett69]

did you short across the 2 pins on the plug under hood? have to do that before you check and set the timing. sticker under hood should show you what pins to jump across and timing specs