GM may get rid of Pontiac or Buick

[BIG-L]

Click here for FOX new's release on GM


Reuters / March 23, 2005

DETROIT -- General Motors, which issued a shock profit warning last week and has been losing market share, may phase out one of its weaker car brands if sales fail to meet projections, company Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said on Wednesday.

GM's Buick and Pontiac are both "damaged brands" due to lack of investment over the years, and GM is working to correct that with an array of new vehicles coming to market, Lutz told a Morgan Stanley automotive conference in New York.

But if some of its brands fail to meet sales projections, "then we would have to take a look at a phase-out. I hope we don't have to do that. What we've got to do is keep the brands we've got."

Financial analysts have said for years that the world's largest automaker has too many brands to support, even with the gradual phase-out of the Oldsmobile brand a few years ago, particularly with its weaker U.S. sales.

Sales for both Pontiac and Buick have lagged in recent years. But GM is in the midst of a $3 billion investment in new vehicles for Buick and Pontiac showrooms and they will have four new vehicles this year, including the Solstice roadster, Torrent SUV and the G6 mid-sized coupe.

GM, which last week cut its earnings outlook for 2005 by as much as 80 percent, posted a 6 percent drop in U.S. sales for the first two months of the year. GM's U.S. market share fell to about 25 percent, far below its share of 27.5 percent for all of 2004.

Analysts said last week that GM's March sales could fall as much as 10 percent in March, while foreign automakers such as Toyota Motor Corp., Hyundai Motor Co. Ltd. and Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. would continue to gain U.S. market share.

Lutz said GM will post relatively flat U.S. sales for March, however, performing much better than expected.

"I think we're going to be just about even, our best guess at this point. Either a percent over or a percent under," he said. "It is a substantially better month than January or February, and it looks like the whole industry is up."

'A HUGE ALBATROSS'

No details about an expected restructuring at GM, the largest private U.S. provider of health care, have emerged since it roiled markets with its warning last week.

But the company, which has about $300 billion in outstanding debt, said on Wednesday it was in talks to sell a stake in its GMAC Commercial Mortgage unit after potential investors expressed interest in the unit.

And Lutz and Gary Cowger, GM's president for North America, spoke of possible demands for a cut in mounting health care benefits for the company's hourly union employees in remarks on the sidelines of the New York auto show on Wednesday.

An elimination of any one of GM's brands would likely mean plant closings and a shrinking of GM's hourly work force.

"An across-the-board competitive health care plan for salaried and hourly employees could literally save us billions," Cowger said. Health care costs, added Lutz, are "a huge albatross hanging over American industry today."

Lutz particularly acknowledged that the automaker, which will struggle to make a profit this year, faces challenges. But he said GM was "taking the necessary step to right this ship."

"Sure, we face short-term challenges, and this is not going to be a banner year," he said. "It's a difficult period of adjustment. But we will get through it."

He said some of GM's new cars, such as its Chevrolet Cobalt small car and the Pontiac G6 mid-sized car, will post their best sales to date in March, and told the Morgan Stanley conference "I don't know where all the gloom and doom is coming from."

He quoted one car reviewer who said, referring to GM's troubles, that the quality of the Cobalt convinced him that "the Titanic may yet turn fast enough to miss the iceberg."

[BigFig15]

Do you think theyll get rid of Pontiac? Damn near every car you see is a Pontiac. I think they should ditch Buick.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by BigFig15

Do you think theyll get rid of Pontiac? Damn near every car you see is a Pontiac. I think they should ditch Buick.

I don't know about you all but I see more SUVs, minivans, pickup trucks and rice-burners than Pontiacs or Buicks lately. If GM decides to get rid of Buicks they will have problems with the old folks and AARP. Lots of lobbying power. lol.

[panchoman]

they shouldn't get rid of either one, get rid of hondas sounds better haah.....not starting a flame ware btw

[guano]

[quote=BIG-L]Click here for FOX new's release on GM

wasnt it maybe a couple of years ago that GM was supposed to ditch oldsmobile? what ever happened to that plan? i highly highly doubt that either buick or pontiac is going anywhere.. GM is trippin' when they loose a little cash, well WTF you guys buy out HUMMER and SAAB shit their sales dont touch either pontiac or buick. whoever is sittin' in the big chair needs to wake up and smell the cash. there is a lot of pontiac and buick to come if u ask me.

[pommer2005]

If you guys want to read more about it, theres a 16 pages topic on it on GMInsideNews.com
-josh

http://forums.gminsidenews.com/showthread.php?t=12612

[BIG-L]

wasnt it maybe a couple of years ago that GM was supposed to ditch oldsmobile? what ever happened to that plan?

They are ! If you ever noticed that they only offer 3 models now and they are 2004 Alero, Bravada & Silhouette.The last Oldsmobile ( Alero ) rolled off the line in June of 2004 at the Lansing, Mi. plant, it was fitting that the last Olds would be built where it all started. It's rumored that R.E Olds rolled over in his grave that day and told G.M top brass to kiss his @**.


Olsmobile is releasing a collector's edition to finish there long history

http://www.oldsmobile.com/olds/collectors/index.html




Quote from www.oldsmobile.com
Very few will own the last ones ever built.

If you'd like to own a piece of Oldsmobile history, these custom-painted and outfitted vehicles are your last opportunity.

[MikeLee2484]

Originally Posted by guano

wasnt it maybe a couple of years ago that GM was supposed to ditch oldsmobile? what ever happened to that plan? i highly highly doubt that either buick or pontiac is going anywhere.. GM is trippin' when they loose a little cash, well WTF you guys buy out HUMMER and SAAB shit their sales dont touch either pontiac or buick. whoever is sittin' in the big chair needs to wake up and smell the cash. there is a lot of pontiac and buick to come if u ask me.

number one, they did get rid of oldsmoblie. and number two just because the sales dont reach the same doesnt mean they arent as profitable. the reason they are considering getting rid of either pontiac or buick is because, with only a few exceptions with pontiac, the cars are the same as any chevy just badged as either pontiac or buick. they just dont see the point in keeping two of the same cars. why sell both a sunfire and a cavailer? just sell one. thats what they're seeing. cut back on the expenses to sell two of essentially the same car and they see greater profits. hummers and saabs are so different from the typical GM mold and attract a different market, thats why GM bought them and are keeping them. plus beyond that, the brand image of both buick and pontiac isnt what it used to be. and probably for buick, there is no recovering from that.

[MikeLee2484]

sorry BIG-L, you beat me to the oldsmobile comment by a minute

[BIG-L]

New Release

Kill a brand? GM's LaNeve says no

By Jason Stein
Automotive News / March 24, 2005

DETROIT -- One day after General Motors Vice Chairman Robert Lutz mused about the automaker possibly killing a brand, another GM executive asserted that the automaker has no intention of eliminating any of its brands.

Mark LaNeve, vice president of sales and marketing for GM, told Automotive News the automaker is investing heavily in all eight brands. Phasing out a particular division is not under consideration.

"We have no plans, or even discussions, of killing any brands," LaNeve said, "We're investing more heavily than ever in product and marketing programs."

On Wednesday, Lutz told a Morgan Stanley Automotive conference in New York if one of GM's "troubled brands" fails to turn around, "then we'd have to take a look at a phase-out."

Published reports linked Pontiac and Buick to Lutz's comments.

LaNeve reemphasized in a message to dealers Thursday that both brands are safe.

LaNeve also said GM is managing Buick, Pontiac and GMC as one channel and providing those divisions with a product portfolio "to service that channel and to focus " the lineup.

That represents a key difference from Oldsmobile, which GM killed last year, he said.

"These portfolios we're going to deliver we don't have to deliver an A to Z portfolio for those three brands," he said. "We can tighten and focus them. I'd rather have four or five great Pontiacs or Buicks than eight undistinguishable products. That business model makes a lot of sense."

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by MikeLee2484

number one, they did get rid of oldsmoblie. and number two just because the sales dont reach the same doesnt mean they arent as profitable. the reason they are considering getting rid of either pontiac or buick is because, with only a few exceptions with pontiac, the cars are the same as any chevy just badged as either pontiac or buick. they just dont see the point in keeping two of the same cars. why sell both a sunfire and a cavailer? just sell one. thats what they're seeing. cut back on the expenses to sell two of essentially the same car and they see greater profits. hummers and saabs are so different from the typical GM mold and attract a different market, thats why GM bought them and are keeping them. plus beyond that, the brand image of both buick and pontiac isnt what it used to be. and probably for buick, there is no recovering from that.

I seriously doubt that GM will get rid of Pontiac or Buick this decade. They are already losing market share to the rice-burners and if they continue with the folly, loyal Buick and Pontiac people will simply look at other alternatives (Honda, Toyota & Nissan, etc.) before stooping so low as to buy a Chevy. In my opinion, the only Chevy worth looking at or considering is the Corvette if you can afford it. The rest are garbage. Just checkout the Impala and Malibu forums. If I wanted a Chevy I would have bought one instead I opted out for Pontiac, Buick & Oldsmobile.

'97 GTP, '01 Regal GS, '99 Regal LS & '02 Olds Alero GL2

[94sportsedan]

On the same note I'm pissed at Chevrolet for pushing back the realease of the new RWD lineup in favor of new larger trucks. Hello, do they know what's going on in the world that gas prices are at an all time High. I hope this really bites them in the a@@. All I here is people complaining about fuel econmy in these big pieces of crap on the road.

[BigFig15]

I like trucks. But I dont understand why the people drive them think that because it has a 4x4 badge on it makes them invincible and gravity and laws motion means nothing to them. I was driving one nite and it was really shitty out with snow blowing everywhere and this jack off behind me in a truck tailgates me untill it was clear to pass. He didnt pass me slowly he did it with no hesitation and like i was standing still. Sure 4 wheel is good in some situations but you will still loose control of it and put it in a ditch and bend some shit up. 4x4 aint gonna help u when i got a bent wheel or an axel.

I hope GM pulls there head out of there ass and get there shit together or we will be forced to drive rice burners. Oh make up your mind if your going to make a GMC or a Chevy. Whats the big differnce in the two of them other than a high price tag

[jon95se]

bnaylor3400- i find it funny how you just flamed the impala. in essence, you just flammed your own car. as MikeLee2484 stated. all lot of the same cars, with a different look. just like the regal too. in most perspectives they are all the same. and the century is just a regal with a smaller engine.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by jon95se

bnaylor3400- i find it funny how you just flamed the impala. in essence, you just flammed your own car. as MikeLee2484 stated. all lot of the same cars, with a different look. just like the regal too. in most perspectives they are all the same. and the century is just a regal with a smaller engine.

Its really not funny. Comparing a Regal or a Pontiac GT/GTP to an Impala is like comparing apples to oranges. They may both be fruit but they do not look or taste the same. As to flaming Impalas, Impala owners do a better job than me on these forums. If my GTP or Regals had the quality issues of the Impalas I would have run them off a cliff a long time ago. You get what you pay for.

Plus the majority of the Impalas on the road run a 3.4L V6 with a different tranny. Where's the similarity there?