Replacement Seats for 97 Olds 88

[OldRelayer]

We bought this car a little over 2 years ago with about 85Kmiles, we put a few dollars into it but nothing terrible and it has been a great second car and a great winter car. It has just 100k now and we just checked the mileage and it was a very acceptable 24.8 MPG. It isn't a terribly powerful car, in the summer with the air on it will fight you on a hill but we don't use it that much in the summer.

Lately I have been thinking of picking up an Aurora for more comfort and performance from our second car.

One of my big complaints is the passenger seat is not very comfortable and my wife would prefer leather. I am considering the option of replacing the front seats with dual power leather. I found a set of leather seats on Ebay but I don't think they are dual power (although I can't imagine why they wouldn't be, still trying to find out).

If I was able to find a set that were priced right and had the dual power option, can these seats be put in a car that only has power only on one side, and beable to use both as power seats. If not is there a retrofit that might work?

[burningrooster]

Hi iI am a little interested with your concern that you have power issues with the vehicle. That vehicle had the series 2 3800 with 205hp stock and should have no issues with pick up and go. I use to drive a 1992 delta88 with the older 3800 and had no issues driving thru the New England hills from Canada to Maine with a full load of passengers and the air blowing full blast. Have you had the fuel injectors cleaned and the fuel filter changed, maybe you should have a compression test done on the car to see that it is running properly?

Second stay away from the Aurora. It’s a beautiful car and when it is working right it is a beautiful car to drive. Unfortunately with the Northstar system in them when something goes wrong it is pain to fix and costly. I had a co-worker with one cost him $1400 CAD just to change the alternator as they had to drop the engine. Cost him 5000 CAD for an engine rebuild at 175000km approx 110000mi to do a complete engine rebuild on the car because of plastic intake manifold parts causing a leak. All that and the car still does not drive right.

Third as for the seats the drivers side should just wire right in, as for the passenger side with some cars being mass produced they will run all wiring for most of the components then add them during final assembly if this is the case with your car you may very well be able to put it directly in and wire it up. However if its not you will have to seek the help of an electrician to wire it up. Either way it sounds way cool to have them both up and running. As for where to buy you may want to check with a local wreckers to see if you can get them cheaper you may also want to the backs so that they all match up. Maybe even look into buying a whole car that has been written off and rip the parts out of it your self then you can see how both passenger and drivers seats are wired in and use the wiring for your own application.

[OldRelayer]

Thank you so much for your response, you obviously know something about the subject.

Originally Posted by burningrooster

That vehicle had the series 2 3800 with 205hp stock and should have no issues with pick up and go. Have you had the fuel injectors cleaned and the fuel filter changed, maybe you should have a compression test done on the car to see that it is running properly?

No, I haven't had anything looked at, but my thought was if it was getting good mileage, it was probably ok. This may not be the case. I don't drive the car but even in the passengers seat is is evident that it doesn't have much umph. At that point I have said, you better give it some more gas and my wife will say, I am. It seems to be only when the air is on we notice anything, so may be it has something to do with the air. Although this car has the best AC, could hang meat inside in the height of the summer. WE do use regular gas, not sure if using a better grade in the summer might help. It does seem to run a little hotter on the guage then I would like, never in the red but quite high, not sure if that may have something to do with it?

Originally Posted by burningrooster

Second stay away from the Aurora. It’s a beautiful car and when it is working right it is a beautiful car to drive.

I am certainly not looking for problems. I follow and have posted a few questions on the Aurora forum and most of the problems there are fairly minor but of course annoying and time consuming. I don't think the Aurora is a car that is anywhere near as reliable as the 88, just the impression I get. There are several ways we can go. One ways is to fix the Olds up and keep our Summer car, that has the Amenities we really want when we travel. Other than the couple of issues I mentioned the Olds has been such a great winter car. A second option is to pick up a car with a bit more Amenities and comfort but still older and not terrible expensive. Or get rid of both cars and pick up something that will work for us in winter and summer and have everything we want in a car. Of course the cheapest of these options is #1 and cheaper yet would be to do nothing and pay the price in the form of discomfort.

Originally Posted by burningrooster

Third as for the seats the drivers side should just wire right in, as for the passenger side with some cars being mass produced they will run all wiring for most of the components then add them during final assembly if this is the case with your car you may very well be able to put it directly in and wire it up.

The power issue is really less of a problem than the seat. If we go more than 15 minutes or so I really feel the effects of this horrible seat. My thought was if you had the switch, even if it wasn't wired for it, all you would have to do is run a hot wire to it and then wire the switch up. I also was thinking, that rather than messing with the door panel, that if I got a drivers switch, it could be attached to the plastic part of the seat, many cars do this, in fact it is how it is done in our other car. I have not had a response from any of the people from salvage or Ebay for that matter, I guess I would have to call around. I really could care less if the back seat match, this is just a winter car, and if we decide to keep it and do this retrofit, its next stop will likely be the junk yard or a first car for a teenager. Although the idea of having a parts car that would be refereed to seems like a good idea.

Thanks again for you help.
Barry

[burningrooster]

Originally Posted by OldRelayer

Thank you so much for your response, you obviously know something about the subject.

It does seem to run a little hotter on the guage then I would like, never in the red but quite high, not sure if that may have something to do with it?

The 3800 always had a tendancy to run a little warmer then most cars they tend to be about dead centre on the temp guage which should be about 90 degrees if it goes any higer than 115 i would get concerned.

Originally Posted by OldRelayer

I am certainly not looking for problems. I follow and have posted a few questions on the Aurora forum and most of the problems there are fairly minor but of course annoying and time consuming. I don't think the Aurora is a car that is anywhere near as reliable as the 88, just the impression I get. There are several ways we can go. One ways is to fix the Olds up and keep our Summer car, that has the Amenities we really want when we travel. Other than the couple of issues I mentioned the Olds has been such a great winter car. A second option is to pick up a car with a bit more Amenities and comfort but still older and not terrible expensive. Or get rid of both cars and pick up something that will work for us in winter and summer and have everything we want in a car. Of course the cheapest of these options is #1 and cheaper yet would be to do nothing and pay the price in the form of discomfort.
Barry

For what its worth I am not certain what your summer car is but I know that prices on an 1997 or 1998 olds 88 LSS with about 100000km about 65000mi runs about 7000 CAD which would have all of the toys and some have the optional supercharger they had the 3800 series 2 and the supercharged runs about 240hp at the wheels. Plenty of comfort and power for a very reasonable price. Maybe you should consider selling the vehicle for which you should get a decent dollar for as it still has considerable value, and buy something with more comfort and Amenities. You may also want to look at a 1996-2002 Buick regal IS/GS 1996-2003 Bonneville SSE/SSEi both have the 3800 series 2 and the GS/SSEi have the supercharger. All have plenty of comfort and style in a full size sedan. If you go with the RegalGS or Bonneville SSE/SSEi these were the sport models with tighter suspension and larger rims for performance. If you look around you should be able to find one with low mileage and at a good price. Other good alternatives to consider are the Buick Lesabre and Park Ave. These are perfect used cars as the original owners tend to be seniors who take it in for regular maintenance weather it needs it or not, and tend to drive the car very conservatively. There are not much for style but they were extremely comfortable and can be had a reasonable price as well.
All of these cars were built on the same frame/platform and have many interchangeable parts. All were solid build and went for 28000-45000CAD new depending on the options. All are a good used buy with the right mileage and maintenance.
The one thing to keep essential is to stick with the 3800 Series 2 (any full size GM after 1996) under the hood it is the BEST engine GM has built, reliable, and has excellent gas mileage. Parts for it are easy to find and change out, as it’s all relatively accessible. And with a few mods ie air intake, hi flow exhaust and mod chip will out perform the Aurora. The main reason to stay away from the Aurora is the 4.0litre DOHC V8 Northstar, Dual Over Head Cam engines are very expensive to fix because all of the components (i.e. alternator power steering pump etc.) are located under the cam shafts and are not easily accessible making them costly on repair labor and therefore not a wise used car purchases, new with a warranty is the best way to go with them.

[Hansnet]

First of all the l36 WAS NOT the best engine GM every built. (I have read figures that 30% of the engines will have/had major repair done to intake by 100K). GM never made a fix for this even though these intakes can fail 4 or more times the first 100,000 miles costing upwards of $800 for a dealer repair.

Second of all I have the same seats as you I am pretty sure and yes they do suck....

as far as your 88 being reliable it is probably the most unreliable engine they used since switching to FWD. This is assuming you have not had your upper intake manifold replaced recently. These tend to melt due to the positioning of the EGR valve (hot) right in front of the plastic intake manifold. Water+oil = bad combo. common with a good portion of GM v6 (not just the 3.8) engines including the 60* smaller V6's.

Sure still a reliable car though compared to most available if you have that fixed. Just dont expect it to go 400,000 miles like the a lot of 86-94 did and can do.

As far as leather seat transisition I had the same concern. I bought a 95 lss with leather and the same interior as my 94, after considerable reading of the fsm It would require a whole buttload of work as I would have to make custom wiring harnesses and such. In other words it was not possible without umteen hours of labor. So forget that idea

L36 is a good motor if it has not had the intake problems though. IT will be in my 3800 powered car if I do not get a L67.

As far as good cars to buy I would look at any 3800 powered car, especailly a SSEi bonnie that has been taken care of. These cars have HUD, heated seats, sunroof, best seats and all the opitions your 88 does not have. 92-99 SSE or SSEi were very good cars. In 2000 the body style changed, the car got heavier and GM did some stupid stuff with the magnasteer. Still good cars but the handling went downhill (from the f41 on the 92-99)

Get a H-Body or W-Body whichever you like better, H-Body would be the bonnies, lesabres or lss/88s. W body are like Grand prixs, olds intrigues, and buick regals. Buick Park Avenue/Olds 98 were on a different platform which I would avoid.

Buick Regal GS L67 are a VERY good deal right now since they are not usually driven as hard as the other L67 powered cars. A regal with the same or better condition will cost much less than a supercharged bonnie or pa ultra.

avoid the 4.0l and 3.5l motors if high miles.

But if you do get a L36 MAKE CERTAIN to see if it has documented history of a new upper intake pleneum or any other work done dealing with the intake. This is the only thing that fails on these cars other than trannys usually.

That brings up the tranny discussion. Like all FWD trannies, gm's 4t60e is no different and it is crap. The later version of the 4t60e (94-97) was the most refined and usually the most reliable. in 97/98 gm switched over to the 4t65e which was not quite as strong as the previous version. The 4t65e will hold up though if you are not letting your tires leave too many dark lines on the road.

As far as your 25mpg that is too low if it is highway. It should be 30 or so if it is highway only, 20 if it is city only and if it is a combo in the mid 20's.

As far as your temp getting hot, it should never be above 200*. Your thermostat is 195 and it should always be right in that range unless your AC is on and you are stuck in traffic. Since these trannys die, I always throw in a 180* stat like most 3800 people since it helps out a great deal in keeping your temp no more than 1/4 of the way up there.

If you get a H-Body get one with F41 suspension. this means it has stiffer springs but still not "stiff" and thicker sway bars which really helps cornering out.

The SSE/SSEi has the same size rims 92-94 (22560r16) as the other bonnevilles and the LS/LSS olds based after 94.

So all in all If you do get a L36 (if you cannot afford or find a good l67 {my main problem lol}) you should be very aware of the intake problem. The thing is these motors were so widely used in just about every gm midsize and fullsize car of the late 90s to a couple years ago the engines are EVERYWHERE and very cheap to throw another one in. sometimes cheaper than having just your intake mainifold repaced by a stealership. Keep in mind it is much cheaper to have a motor rebuilt than a tranny on these cars though. Go test drive a L67 car w/f41 and see how you like it.

here are the specs for the different 3.8's in case you were wondering (posted this a few days ago):

Specs on the different 3.8s:

1986-1999 Eighty Eights:

1986 LG3 3.8: 150hp@4400, 200tq@2000
1987-1988 LG3 3.8: 165hp@5200, 210tq@2000
1988-1991 LN3 3800: 165hp@5200, 210tq@2100
1992-1994 L27 Series One: 170hp@4800, 220tq@3200
1995-1999 L36 Series Two: 205hp@5200, 230tq@4000

Olds LSS OR Eighty Eights w/supercharger package:
1995 L67 Series 1: 225hp@5000, 275tq@3200
1996-1999 L27 Series 2: 240hp@5200, 280tq@3200


Supercharged began in 91 w/Buick PAs and 92 with bonnevilles, 97 with the GTPs:
1991-1993 L67 Series One: 205hp@4400, 260tq@2600
1994-1995 L67 Series One: 225hp@5000, 275tq@3200
1996-2003 L67 Series Two: 240hp@5200, 280tq@3200

[burningrooster]

Originally Posted by Hansnet

First of all the l36 WAS NOT the best engine GM every built. (I have read figures that 30% of the engines will have/had major repair done to intake by 100K). GM never made a fix for this even though these intakes can fail 4 or more times the first 100,000 miles costing upwards of $800 for a dealer repair.

I am sorry I should have been a little clearer on that one, any version of the 3.8/3800 is the best engines GM seems to be putting in their passenger cars these days! Although I have driven all variations of the 3.8, supercharged and N/A from 1987 till 2005 (the gen III in the GTP rocks) I have only owned 2 an '87 olds 98 with the original 3.8 and an '89 olds 98 with the 3800 SFI. Neither required major engine work and were solid reliable machines. The 87 blew the timing belt on a start up at 220,000km and already needed new shocks, brakes and tires, I was prepared to do the maintenance work but as a college student just did not have the extra cash for the engine and regrettably I had to scrap it. I recently purchased the '89 after a very unpleasant experience with a cavalier and it has 126000km 78000mi and runs beautifully. Brougham, alloys and FE3.

As for the plastic manifolds this is a common problem with a lot of GM cars, I know a few people driving the 3.4 Grand Am and Olds Alero that both needed full rebuilds at about 100000km because of this Nobel Prize winning idea!

[dynamic88]

My dad added a power passenger seat to his 2001 Buick LeSabre last summer and it was a pretty simple operation. They just spliced into the wiring harness for the driver's seat. Unfortunately, this operation will be a little more complicated for the Olds because the seat controls are on the door, not on the seat.

[OldRelayer]

Originally Posted by dynamic88

My dad added a power passenger seat to his 2001 Buick LeSabre last summer and it was a pretty simple operation. They just spliced into the wiring harness for the driver's seat. Unfortunately, this operation will be a little more complicated for the Olds because the seat controls are on the door, not on the seat.

Actually it sounds like one of those seats from the Buick could be better, it already has the controls on the seat panel. I suspect that any LaSabre or Bonneville would fit. I am having a hard time understanding why you need more than the seat with all the motors and controls and then bring in two wires, a hot and a ground and poof, it should work. Why would you have to wire into the driver side wiring harness? I am not saying, it is the way it is, it just doesn't make sense why you would need to do that, does't that mean that GM or any other Car company has ever listened to me, of course not.

This car is basically a winter beater so it doesn't need to be pretty, they don't even need to match, at first I was looking for a pair but now I am thinking, I don't even care. It could be leather or cloth as long as it is power. I would even take a power seat that I adjust before taking out of the other car and then just put it in and not even hook up the power, I am just looking for one setting that works for me.

The other option is finding a way to make the seat permanently adjusted the way I want it. If I could somehow get the front part of the seat up about 2 or 3 inches(which sounds like a lot, but I am trying to replicate the angle when you have the maximum height in the front of the seat cushion and down as far as it can go in the back, it would be fine. Has anyone ever done anything like this, or an idea how it could be done. Getting the summer car ready to use so I have a long time, until next November, to either get something done or get another one. That does seem like a waste, because in every other way this car is perfect and does exactly what we want. Although I am not too terribly crazy able this car and I guess Front Drive cars in general in the slush, just doesn't handle it very well.

Thanks for your replies.
Barry

[dynamic88]

Originally Posted by OldRelayer

Actually it sounds like one of those seats from the Buick could be better, it already has the controls on the seat panel. I suspect that any LaSabre or Bonneville would fit. I am having a hard time understanding why you need more than the seat with all the motors and controls and then bring in two wires, a hot and a ground and poof, it should work. Why would you have to wire into the driver side wiring harness? I am not saying, it is the way it is, it just doesn't make sense why you would need to do that, does't that mean that GM or any other Car company has ever listened to me, of course not.

I have no idea about the Bonneville, but the LeSabre seats for '92-'99 model years also had the seat controls on the door. The 2000 and newer models have a redesigned seat with the controls on the side of the seat but the seats also differ from the earlier ones in another important way--the safety belts are integrated into the seat instead of attached to the body of the car. Still, you might be able to take the seat track off of a 2000 or newer model and attach it to your existing seat.

The reason for splicing into the wiring harness for the driver's side was merely because it was the most convenient source for power. A factory-installed power passenger seat would be on a separate circuit. It's not a problem to have them wired into the same circuit as it would be rare that both driver and passenger would be adjusting their seats simultaneously. If they did, there would be a (somewhat remote) risk of blowing the fuse. The simple solution to that problem, of course, would be to put in a slightly heavier fuse.