95 SL2 wont start

[EZFrank]

Im really having major issues with this car it is a 1995 SL2 twin cam at first it was running kind of rough and kept idling up and down on its own so i checked the spark plugs and found that three of the spark plug valleys were the wire boot goes in to the spark plug were full of oil so i replaced the valve cover gasket and still it was running rough so i checked the temp sensor and was cracked and full of green slime so i replaced it know the car wont start it has good spark and there is fuel goin in cause the plugs got fouled with fuel. know im really stumped, i really dont know were to look also there is lots of carbon coming out tail pipe when car was running so i thought maybe egr valve so i took it out and cleaned it but still nothing could it be the cat is clogged i tried loosening the manifold bolts to the exhaust to see if it would start but nada i really would appreciate any help thank you much. FrankC

[cbeck]

carbon = oil? could be piston rings worn. fouled with gas... is the throttle stuck?

and i don't remember, but is the egr electronic or vacuum? i'm guessing you verified it's not stuck open, which could cause some of your earlier mentioned symptoms. that's all i got.

[sierrap615]

try starting at partical throttle, if the computer loses its KAM sometimes that will be the only way to do it.

check order of plug wires.

Remove the O2 sensor to check the cat.

try cleaning the EGR with carb cleaner.

remove the spark plugs and crank, see if you can smell raw fuel from the holes.

after all that, check compression

[EZFrank]

Thanks will try all anything need to get car started.

[mysatilac]

Originally Posted by cbeck

carbon = oil? could be piston rings worn. fouled with gas... is the throttle stuck?

and i don't remember, but is the egr electronic or vacuum? i'm guessing you verified it's not stuck open, which could cause some of your earlier mentioned symptoms. that's all i got.

Carbon is the black soot that is a product of burning oil, the black smoke or dust...

good suggestions from sierrap615,
what is KAM, something like _ _ Memory

EZFrank-PLEASE let us know when you figure out what the problem was!

I've been working on a Honda Accord with an identical problem, the guy who owns it has decided it may be leaking injectors (by an uncles suggestion), because it fired up for us one day after ~2 hours work, then wouldn't after sitting overnight (smell gas pretty strong from exhaust), I didn't change out the head gasket yet (any suggestions?)

[sierrap615]

KAM - keep alive memory, just a technical term

for any no start you need to check:
1.fuel
2.spark(including timing)
3.compression
4.intake
5.exhaust

[EZFrank]

If i find the problem i will let you all know but i also thought maybe the catalyctic converter may be plugged but dont know. I also smell fuel and my plugs keep getting fouled with fuel and it has spark and the injecters do light up. I also think a sensor maybe the problem most likely EGR valve. Good luck with the Honda. Later EZFrank

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by mysatilac

I've been working on a Honda Accord with an identical problem, the guy who owns it has decided it may be leaking injectors (by an uncles suggestion), because it fired up for us one day after ~2 hours work, then wouldn't after sitting overnight (smell gas pretty strong from exhaust), I didn't change out the head gasket yet (any suggestions?)

That was the same problem i had, it turned out to be the TW sensor (coolant temperature sensor) when i would try to start my car, i would get the gas smell and we thought it might be leaky injectors. But the TW sensor made it so that it did a cold start alll the time (therefore dumping more fuel in than it should have gotten), so it started fine when it was cold, but when it was hot, it only cranked. Try that on your honda accord (mine was an 86' accord LX-i) The saturn however, i don't know if it has a sensor like this, i would think so, but i've only worked on foreign cars myself. Good luck guys

BTW... the sensor cost me 2 bucks at the salvage yard.
it's about 50 or so new.

[mysatilac]

thanks I will try that...
anything is worth a try, we have been stumped on this car for a while.
Yes, the saturn has a similar sensor the ECTS (engine coolant temperature sensor), I didn't make the connection that this could stop the starting, I knew it would contribute to jumping RPM and bad idle, but I agree that this may be the reason because the last time we worked on it, when it DID start it was COLD outside. It was HOT today and nothing, no matter what we did, tried everything we could think of with our limited tools => (I traveled out of town to come try to get it started,)
we charged the battery back up, changed the spark plugs, put starting fluid to the throttle body, check for stored trouble codes (none), definitely getting spark,fuel,intake and exhaust are working, again dont have the tools to check timing or compression, but I will try that sensor as soon as I get my hands on one
again thanks for the suggestion

[sierrap615]

saturns have had many problem linked to the ECT, saturn repaired the bad design in 2001/2002. the Saturn ECT cost $11-20 from a dealer

[mysatilac]

Originally Posted by EZFrank

I also smell fuel and my plugs keep getting fouled with fuel and it has spark and THE INJECTORS DO LIGHT UP. I also think a sensor maybe the problem most likely EGR valve. Good luck with the Honda. Later EZFrank

Too simple for your problem but... did you check for a clogged air intake/ intake filter, or low battery/bad connection... also don't know if its that simple but if the cat is clogged up there shouldn't be very much exhaust coming out the tail pipe when you try cranking...right?

Thanks, I gave the honda a try but ended up coming home disappointed... may try again at the end of spring break

I Just found out there was such a thing as a "noid light" (injector test light) figured newbies might also be confused, can I check this by just trying to crank the engine instead of having the engine running the engine since it wont start?
I also found how to test the individual injectors resistances- not the injector resistor, thought I'd post what I got
'91-'02 S-series injector resistances
TBI
1.0-2.0 ohms
MPFI
'95 and earlier 1.5-2.5 ohms
'96 and after 11.5-12.5 ohms
but I dont know what a bad resistance value from an injector really means... I guess if one value is incorrect replace that injector, would a bad value constitute a leaking/stuck open injector?

anyway, thanks for any update

[sierrap615]

first i have heard a few different specs for the TBI injectior, anywhere from 1 to 16 ohms. it is only a test of the solenoid winding, not the mechanical condistion.

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by mysatilac

Thanks, I gave the honda a try but ended up coming home disappointed... may try again at the end of spring break

It may also be the wire or the plug going into the TW sensor. Unfortunately, that is not easy to track down.

The other thing that comes to mind it maybe the timing jumped a tooth or two. Also, What trim is your Accord? (lx, dx, lx-i, etc...)

[mysatilac]

I have checked the resistances of the TW (ECT) sensor and the TA (IAT) sensor, both were correct as well as the reference voltages coming from the ECU to these sensors
and the injector resistor and individual injectors resistances, I just started a new thread labeled "another car wont start" which details my newly suspected problem. Igniter or other spark problem- i regret saying I was definitely getting a spark (said that 'cause I shocked myself on the coil)
But thank you very much for the suggestions.

If you don't mind checking that thread out I can use all the help I can get!

It is a 1990 Honda Accord EX

[peppermrj]

Try starting with the throttle open a bit.
Try cleanin the AIC valve on the throttle body(Easier to remove the throttle body and clean both). The AIC can test out OK but stll be carboned up.

Try starting with throttle to the floor(will kill the injectors to clear flood mode).
When you replaced the ECTS did you check the wire that it attaches to? Also was the new ECTS all brass oem?