92 prelude si has starting/electrical problems, can anyone HELP!

[cycleguy77]

I just bought a 1992 si. Everything seemed good at the time of purchase from a private party. The next day I noticed that the car did not want to start right up like usual. It cranks and sometimes for a fraction of a second it fires up, but then dies. It reaIly only lasts for about .2 seconds when it does fire up. I usually have to crank it anywhere from 3- to say 13 times to get it to actually start and not die. It drives perfectly when driving. It has 150k miles. This is an intermittent problem that only happens when the car is driven and turned off for 5 to 20 minutes. I believe that it is a fuel problem of some kind or an ignition problem? Like I said, it only does it part of the time, maybe 10%.

Something else happened to my car today. I was trying to figure what was wrong with the starting problem and continued to turn the car on and off about 7 times, then suddenly the car stopped all together. I mean the battery was immediatly almost dead. It would not even crank at all and my cd player automatically spit out my CD and my oil light, abs light, and I believe my check engine light came on and would not turn off. I tried to start the car with a battery box, but that did not seem to help. Very strange, does anyone know if this may be related to the starter relay problem or does it sound like it is just the alternator problem? Thanks

[ludeguy]

Originally Posted by cycleguy77

I just bought a 1992 si. Everything seemed good at the time of purchase from a private party. The next day I noticed that the car did not want to start right up like usual. It cranks and sometimes for a fraction of a second it fires up, but then dies. It reaIly only lasts for about .2 seconds when it does fire up. I usually have to crank it anywhere from 3- to say 13 times to get it to actually start and not die. It drives perfectly when driving. It has 150k miles. This is an intermittent problem that only happens when the car is driven and turned off for 5 to 20 minutes. I believe that it is a fuel problem of some kind or an ignition problem? Like I said, it only does it part of the time, maybe 10%.

Something else happened to my car today. I was trying to figure what was wrong with the starting problem and continued to turn the car on and off about 7 times, then suddenly the car stopped all together. I mean the battery was immediatly almost dead. It would not even crank at all and my cd player automatically spit out my CD and my oil light, abs light, and I believe my check engine light came on and would not turn off. I tried to start the car with a battery box, but that did not seem to help. Very strange, does anyone know if this may be related to the starter relay problem or does it sound like it is just the alternator problem? Thanks

could be tricky to troubleshoot, but I think you're on the right track... I'd start by pulling the sparkplugs... give em a good look, perhaps they were never replaced? if you have a multimeter test the spark plug wires for 14K - 22K ohmz, Take a look at your cap and rotor for excessive wear... you can also test your external coil I could try and explain it - but it's much easier if you grab a helms for yourself at http://www.hondahookup.com/manuals/ (the manual you want is the 93 prelude one - it will work for your 92) it is page 23-100 on how to test your coil (with a multimeter). I would budget to replace your fuel filter - maybe it has never been replaced? and at 150k it could be quite dirty... this would definetley slow the time it takes for the fuel pressure to build at startup. It's located on the firewall, a round looking thing, somewhat behind the throttle body/intake piping. Test your battery with a multimeter, you should get between 12 - 15v, check the battery grounds/terminals. I don't know what your starter sounds like - but it does like it's really given er'? or is it kinda reluctantly trying to start the car like "oh F' do i have to?" - perhaps it is just a starter?
you could test the pgm-fi as well

test for continuity between 3 and 8, and seperatley 5 and 2. the helms will show you where on the relay those points are. if your car eventually starts I doubt you have a problem with the pgm-fi however.

have someone put there ear next to your gas cap when you turn the ignition to ON (but not started), they should hear the fuel pump running, perhaps you have an intermittent wiring snag there(?)

also when trying to start - turn the key to ON (but not started) and leave it there for like 5 secs before turning the key all the way to start - this will give the fuel pressure time to build up, - and could prove that perhaps you have a dirty filter if the car fires up when started like that.

If your battery light isn't flashing when you usually drive around, (but the light itself is tested to work with ignition on) I wouldn't suspect the alternator... at startup it's all battery driven, it could after all be that you just need a new battery?


as far as your problems that you had today ago - I would reset the ECM by pulling the clock/radio fuse in the underhood fuse relay box.... see if the check engine light goes away. you weren't throwing any other codes were you?

I hope that helps somewhat... atleast it gives you some things to look at.

[cycleguy77]

Thanks for all of this info. I will do some tests once I get my car to use the power from the battery. I replaced my battery and nothing changed. The car still will not even crank and all the instruments seem to work, but at about 50% power. The instrument guage takes about 4 seconds to light up when I turn the key on and the windows go up very slow. Ever since my 7th crank the day before the car wont do much of anything. Maybe there was a short of some kind and now it is drawing the power from the battery away? Is it still possible that it could be some kind of bad relay?

[cycleguy77]

Could it be a faulty ECM?

[ludeguy]

Originally Posted by cycleguy77

Could it be a faulty ECM?

by the sounds of what you were saying before - I think your battery is kaput.. I mean if everything is running slow/instruments dim/no crank/power windows slow etc... but before I would go and slap a new battery in there - I would definetley check for reasons for a short - especially between the main battery leads, and also other prone areas like the starter relay, and the alternator... continuity checking with a multimeter is a good way to go. Check the (-) ground cable from the battery - is it severely coroded? it really could be a simple fix like that.

the reason it prob takes 4 secs for everything to light up - is probably because your battery is lacking the voltage (the push) to close the relays. Have you tested your battery volts since the incident? should read 12 - 15v. Really you should be checking it's load capacity too, but that's usually beyond the scope of most diy'ers.

if the batt checks out fine i'd move to the pgmfi.

as for fuses/ecm... I'm sorta doubting you have a problem there - it sounds like the car is trying to do what's it's supposed to, but just doesn't have the oomph to do it - in any case checking fuses is a rather simple chore - just look in your underhood fuse relay box, and also the left kick panel box by the drivers left foot (when in the car obviously). the fuses are in little colored clear plastic housings, you can pluck em out and visually look at them - although once again I would recommend testing with a multimeter for continuity as some cracks are invisible to the naked eye... checking all the fuses would be a bit much as a lot of the systems although deriving their power electrically are unrelated to starting.

Don't rule out your Alternator either - it could be that it's not doing it's job. I mean obviously the alternator doesn't come into play when first starting (except for being extra drag on the engine) but perhaps it's the reason your battery is in the state it's in.

chances are buddy who sold you the car, had recently bought a new battery or something, and didn't want to sell it with the car (? just guessing) he may have chucked in an old battery that he knew would get ya home - but that's about it. You can always confront him about the starting issue and see what he has to say.

I know it's rough especially when you just buy a new (well used but still new to you car) but if you think if you have to spend a bit of dosh for a new batt and/or alt the car could potentially start up everytime for the rest of your time with it. Same goes for chucking in a new fuel filter, or any other odds and ends that you might throw into this to get it settled.

If you're not good/comfortable with electrical snags you might be better off taking it to a shop... but if you're confident with a multimeter it could be a fun learning experience.

[cycleguy77]

Its not the battery because I replaced it with a brand new one and It still has the same probs. Thank for all of your help, this is a very strange problem

[ludeguy]

Originally Posted by cycleguy77

Its not the battery because I replaced it with a brand new one and It still has the same probs. Thank for all of your help, this is a very strange problem

was the battery service ready? - sorry if that sounds like a simple question... usually you have to add distilled water to a new batt. Basically are you sure that battery (even if new) is putting out?

Also, if the car is not cranking at all - (beyond the chance the starter being kaput or some relay) - if it is a MT car it could also be the clutch interlock, it's a switch in the clutch area that lets the vehicle know the clutch is all the way in before cranking... something to visually check atleast.

It's hard for me to diagnose from afar, but I hope I am atleast giving you some idea's... I would get a multimeter (they're cheap these days) and just start checking for shorts...

I've included some info that hopefully you will find helpful in your work.

the battery leads...(pretty self explanatory)



the starting circuitry



testing the starter w/o ignition




best of luck - let us know how it turns out.