Ls-1 to all ford motors, which one????

[ls1mazda93rx7]

well what ford engine is better?.And this is not a PRICE ISSUE .

[drdisque]

I think it can be compared to the 4.6L DOHC Mod motor, not that they exactly line up, but there is a comparison to be had.

If you want to go old school and aren't worrying about how they are stock, I think the 351W compares well to the LS1 too.

[ls1mazda93rx7]

yea but the ls-1 gets 30mpg on the highway. and has more horsepower than a 4.6.4.6-260hp Ls-1-315hp. the weight of the ls-1 is around 40-50lbs lighter than most small blocks.

[ls1mazda93rx7]

not trying to be a dick, but i just won't a good debate.

[syr74]

Well, do you want to compare stock for stock or highly modded to highly modded? There is a lot to compare here.

Potential wise you cannot make the same power with the LS1 as compared to a mod motor all things being equal. Put simply, when optimized for what ever particular combination they are running multiple valves make the difference in this comparo as they have in most comparos for decades now. Strength of motors also plays a part.

There are 4.6L DOHC mod motors with what is basically a stock bottom end making 1500hp with twin turbos. (Improved bearings and oiling being the only mods) A stock block LS1 is incapable of making that kind of power reliably even at 5.7L/350ci. Even with forged internals the block just cannot do it. (To be fair the old Windsor Ford blocks cannot take much more than about 500hp without cracking down the lifter valley)

For another example you can make about 500hp out of a n/a DOHC 4.6L motor with a mild motor combo. Take an aluminum 4.6L block, have larger sleeves pressed in which increases the bore adding inches but more importantly seriously unshrouds the valves! With a few other mods it is very easy to make 500hp out of 5.0L with this motor and run on pump gas.

Also, if you do that same "large bore" modification to an otherwise stock 05 Mustang GT 4.6L 3-valve hp would jump from an actual 320 (rated at 300 by Ford) to about 350hp on 87 octane gas! In truth you should make considerably more than that but I like to be conservative. If you contemplate doing this same mod to a long stroke (5.4L block) you would end up with a 6.0L motor that made about the same hp and more torque than the new C6 Vette 6.0L LS2 on 87 octane gas!

For reference show me an LS1 based motor that can make 350hp out of 5.0L in production trim on regular unleaded. We will be waiting a while, because GM has yet to make one that even gets close to that number in that kind of trim. Even GM's 6.0L LS2 needs premium gas to make 400hp, and that is with another liter of displacement.

Sooner or later GM wil move to multipile valves out of necessity. The LS series motor is very nice, but it is about as far as you can develop the pushrod too. The mod motor is still relatively new, and when GM does move to OHC's accross the board they will be several years behind in engineering.

[Rakshas]

Originally Posted by syr74

Well, do you want to compare stock for stock or highly modded to highly modded? There is a lot to compare here.

Potential wise you cannot make the same power with the LS1 as compared to a mod motor all things being equal. Put simply, when optimized for what ever particular combination they are running multiple valves make the difference in this comparo as they have in most comparos for decades now. Strength of motors also plays a part.

There are 4.6L DOHC mod motors with what is basically a stock bottom end making 1500hp with twin turbos. (Improved bearings and oiling being the only mods) A stock block LS1 is incapable of making that kind of power reliably even at 5.7L/350ci. Even with forged internals the block just cannot do it. (To be fair the old Windsor Ford blocks cannot take much more than about 500hp without cracking down the lifter valley)

For another example you can make about 500hp out of a n/a DOHC 4.6L motor with a mild motor combo. Take an aluminum 4.6L block, have larger sleeves pressed in which increases the bore adding inches but more importantly seriously unshrouds the valves! With a few other mods it is very easy to make 500hp out of 5.0L with this motor and run on pump gas.

Also, if you do that same "large bore" modification to an otherwise stock 05 Mustang GT 4.6L 3-valve hp would jump from an actual 320 (rated at 300 by Ford) to about 350hp on 87 octane gas! In truth you should make considerably more than that but I like to be conservative. If you contemplate doing this same mod to a long stroke (5.4L block) you would end up with a 6.0L motor that made about the same hp and more torque than the new C6 Vette 6.0L LS2 on 87 octane gas!

For reference show me an LS1 based motor that can make 350hp out of 5.0L in production trim on regular unleaded. We will be waiting a while, because GM has yet to make one that even gets close to that number in that kind of trim. Even GM's 6.0L LS2 needs premium gas to make 400hp, and that is with another liter of displacement.

Sooner or later GM wil move to multipile valves out of necessity. The LS series motor is very nice, but it is about as far as you can develop the pushrod too. The mod motor is still relatively new, and when GM does move to OHC's accross the board they will be several years behind in engineering.

Although not quite as efficient as a modular OHC motor, The LS series motors have two big advanatges over the mod motors.

1. They are easier to mod.
2. It's easier to get to moderate power levels, Honestly, who the hell is ever going to want 1500hp in a street car? 550-600 is fine for most people, and the LS can get there more easily, and cheaper.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Rakshas

Although not quite as efficient as a modular OHC motor, The LS series motors have two big advanatges over the mod motors.

1. They are easier to mod.
2. It's easier to get to moderate power levels, Honestly, who the hell is ever going to want 1500hp in a street car? 550-600 is fine for most people, and the LS can get there more easily, and cheaper.

I disagree. Making 600hp out of a LS series motor without nitrous is an excercise in spending money unless you started with a Z06 or something like it to begin with. And therein lies the rub, the only LS series motors you can mod to 500hp cheaply are the ones that were expensive as hell to begin with.

Even without the large sleeves I can make 400hp-450 out of a 4.6L DOHC pretty easily and cheaply. Use the 5.4L block instead and I can get that number closer to 500hp than 400hp with some serious torque to boot. Too many people assume that since the old GM small blocks were cheap to mod the new ones are....let me assure you they are not.

The only area where the mod motor tends to get really expensive is if you change cams on a 4-valve. And then, only if you change all four of the cams. (usually exhaust-side mods yield much more than intake-side mods) If you start talking power adders there is no comparison.....the mod motor kills the LS. Mild or wild.

[kman10587]

I think the 4.6L motor in the new Mustang GT stacks up very nicely to the LS1. Power is comparable, and the 3-valve SOHC is a very good compromise between low-end power, high-end power, and good gas mileage (Mercedes-Benz has been using that design for over a decade now). I like that the LS1 is cheaper and easier to work on, and I think that OHV has several useful advantages over OHC, mainly better gas mileage and simplicity of maintenance. Still, for maximum efficiency, refinement, and power production, you need OHC, and in today's market, OHV doesn't quite cut it for most people.

[ls1mazda93rx7]

i could be wrong but, ls-2 400hp $6800 crate engine-ford 5.0 crate with 400hp= http://www.fordracingparts.com/crate...dularcobra.asp. I think the ls1 is around 7k or more cheaper.

[ls1mazda93rx7]

so what is the differnce in these two engines why is the 5.0 cost 15k and the Ls1 or 2http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Ascripts/pricesdata.cgi. cost so much less, they have the same hp??. im just a youg dude so i might be missing something here.

[ls1mazda93rx7]

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/

[ls1mazda93rx7]

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Gen_3/index.html

[ls1mazda93rx7]

if you have trouble finding the ls-2 the P/N- LS9750

[kman10587]

There's more to a drivetrain than how much it costs and how much horsepower it makes. Torque, powerband, gas mileage, and strength of internals are important as well.

[Muscletang]

Originally Posted by Rakshas

Although not quite as efficient as a modular OHC motor, The LS series motors have two big advanatges over the mod motors.

1. They are easier to mod.
2. It's easier to get to moderate power levels, Honestly, who the hell is ever going to want 1500hp in a street car? 550-600 is fine for most people, and the LS can get there more easily, and cheaper.

Lets see, Chevy's 350 has been out since 1967 and the basic design has been out since 1955. Ford's 4.6 has been out how long, 15 years? Of course it'll be easier to mod because Chevy's basic small block has been out for 50 years. A whole lot of products can be made for the same engine if its been out for that long of time.

I also haven't heard of anybody bring up to much about 5.0 in this discussion. Many will say 225 hp < 335 is nuts and the LS-1 will kill the 5.0, not so. I ran a guy with a LS-1 in my 5.0 and stayed with him. People look at the hp numbers on the LS-1 but never look at the 300 lb/tq. In a street race a 5.0 will stay and give the LS-1 a good run for its money. I see where the LS-1 really shines is out on open highway. This is my personal opinion though.

Also, the new DOHC 5.0 that's in the new GT-R Mustang is killer. It has what, 400 hp and around 370 lb/torque? I know the GT-R has more but they tweak the engine more than the basic one you get from ford racing.

I'm sorry but the LS-1, LS-2, LT-1, ect engines from Chevy just don't do it anymore like they use to. I think they're good engines but using the same design in their "top of the line" cars that they used back in the 60s just isn't going to cut it. Ford really got with the times when they started making their OHC and DOHC engines.