Info so far as I have it...

[blight]

Ok I becoming more and more interested in doing a SBC in a civic hatchback. I have asked around here in a couple different threads this is all what you said. (oh and by the way the guys over at clubcivic.com don't know ANYTHING- i'm staying here guys - thanks for all your great info so far)

--------------------
PLASTIC FORK: "I've seen the Cadillac Northstar motor shoved into a VW Golf Mark II, but I wouldn't recommend it. Fabrication will be needed to make sure it works correctly considering size, suspension, drivetrain, electronics, and the like. The fabrication and installation alone would more than likely destroy any budget you might have. Putting engines in Honda's that weren't meant for Honda's is a whole other ballgame when it comes to wiring and fabrication.

Putting a H-series motor in a Honda designed for a D or B series is difficult enough as is when considering fabrication and work, but putting in a motor not even in the Honda family is much more difficult. It can be done but don't expect to stay within budget. Provided you can finish the installation and get it to work, I would imagine it would be streetable as long as the motor was the same year or newer than your car and it passes emissions in your area.

The products I listed are good companies and products, but they're just guidelines to get you started. Best thing you can do for yourself is to research and determine if it's the right product for you. Stay away from eBay no-name brands. There's plenty of companies and products to choose from, so do your homework."

PLASTIC FORK: "The Cadillac motor is pretty big and took up almost all the room in the Golf and a lot of stuff was relocated to the rear in the trunk/hatch. You'd probably have to do the same. Honestly, my opinion is to stick with Honda motors. You can make these things pretty darn fast with Honda motors.

For instance, one of the people on my Del Sol forum just ran a 10.58 second 1/4 mile with a turbo LS/VTEC setup (523hp and 330 lbs of torque). I also know of two Civic hatches like yours running low 11's on the 1/4 mile in Atlanta where I used to live with a turbo GS-R setup. Honda's aren't known for torque, so if you want serious numbers you're going to have to invest and build the motors.

Best thing to ask yourself: Is this my daily driver or have I caught the bug and want to make it really fast? One costs a lot more than the other and both have a lot of options available to them. It's just not worth it in my opinion to swap in motors from different manufacturers. That's my two cents on the matter. The rest is up to you."

Plastic Fork: "I think they put the cooling system in the rear as well and ran ducting for the coolant hoses, etc. The motor really took up almost all the room in the front.

As for a SBC in a Civic, I haven't the slightest if someone has put one in before.

As your stock hatch is approximately 70lbs lighter than my stock Del Sol (your hatch weights closer to 2,400lbs I believe), and based off of the numbers I've seen the Del Sol run with around 325hp, etc., I'd say you'd probably run somewhere in the 12 second range in the 1/4, give or take. That much torque would create torque-spin on the wheels though. I'd recommend you invest in a good limited slip differential."

------------------------------------------------------------

Jackassi: "You would have to do a lot of fab. work for the SBC to fit and then its gonna tear your frame apart. It would be wiser to start with a tube chassis & glass body. That's my opinion. I have seen a 1990 Civic Si (hatch) w/ a 468 Big Block in the rear. How it was done I don't know, I'm sure a lot of redneck engineering. Get a Miata or older RX7 if you want to do the SBC, I've seen that done numerous times. Well it's typically a SBF 5.0L stang motor."

[blight]

Ok now that you know what some of you already have said. This was my plan.

Move EVERYTHING I could to the back. Make my own custom chrome malli tube FULL FRAME ( excuse my spelling i never remember how to spell that). Use the tranny from an late chevy van with a 350 with the crossmemeber cut and weld it in. Get an LTI - carb it so I don't have to worry about wiring. Then hook it up and rebuild the civic (oh I would probably need custom exhaust - i know a REALY good guy for that he is like the god to that end) to it orginal form. I almost forgot before I rebuild it I would use urithane paint on the everything I could for rust issues - that is underneath the car. Then through a decent body kit on it so everyone thinks I am so moron ricer that only cares about looks. Paint it up have a buddy of mine do the deatailing and call it a half a year.
---------------
So the questions are here - am I missing something? What am I going to be able to put or drag to the back (other than the battery)? What are the measurements of this engine bay?

Anything else?
---------------

Oh and by the way I am actually planing on doing this with in six months or so. So please don't think i'm just posting this to ask a stupid question over and over again.

-------------
Thanks for all the help so far and I thanks for all the future posts as well.
------------
LASTLY DO NOT SAY THAT "WITH ENOUGH MONEY ANYTHING CAN BE DONE" I am doing this myself so this - for the most part- does not apply. i am fabing everything except the exhaust, detail, and body kit.
-----------

[Miataracer]

roll cage... if this actually happens, put in a good roll cage. that will help stiffen up the car at least a little bit. probably 8 points like the basic 4 points around the interior then two kick bars back over the rear probably down by the shock towers and then bump some out the front too up to at least the wheel well area.

you know the more i think about it the more i doubt a small block chevy will even fit under the hood and clear the steering rack and subframe up front. you would probably be better off putting it in the back of the car.

[CivicSpoon]

I remember seeing this a while ago, and after some searching I found it: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...&highlight=350
It's a 4th gen civic, but gives an idea.

[blight]

Originally Posted by Miataracer

you know the more i think about it the more i doubt a small block chevy will even fit under the hood and clear the steering rack and subframe up front. you would probably be better off putting it in the back of the car.

Looking at that link from civic spoon I thin kyou may be right the tranny won't fit ( for a front wheel drive tranny that is) What about a differnt Honda? Integra? Accord 2dr? Prelude? Any others you think it would possibly fit in that is older than 96? I think I now just want a 2dr Honda that looks decent with at least a body kit and can take teh SBC.

[Miataracer]

I have always thought it would be cool to have a front engine rear drive prelude. when i see the car i just feel like it should have been that way from the factory

[Plastic_Fork]

The three Honda's that come to mind for rear engine placement is the CRX, Del Sol, and Integra. I know the CRX and Del Sol have both been used, but the hatch area in the Integra seems large enough as well to fit a motor in.

H-series motors have been put into the rear of Del Sol's on a few occasions. Here's some info on one of them:
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=741821&page=1

Here's a CRX that had a Oldsmobile V8 installed in the rear. Scroll down a bit and you'll see a couple pics and the specs:
http://www.ef-honda.com/main/viewtopic.php?t=4936

I would imagine the 3rd gen Accord Aerodeck or hatchback would work as well for a mid-engine setup, but you'll have to get the Aerodeck from Europe or Japan. It's essentially a bigger 4th gen Civic hatch. The 3rd gen Accords were pre-OBD so there's no emissions wiring. Plus the DX and LX models already had carbeurated motors if you get the hatch version. I'm not completely sure which models the Aerodeck came in.

Here's a shot of the 3rd gen Accord hatch:


Here's a shot of the Aerodeck to give you an idea:

[GScivic7]

that looks like a stretched 4G Hatch or a shortened Magnum depending on how you look at it lol

[Plastic_Fork]

hehe Yeah, it does doesn't it? Japan gets all the cool stuff as usual. Like the 3rd gen Accord 2.0 Si. Was a monster with 160hp and almost 200 lbs of torque. That motor's very hard to find though. I was going to swap it into my 3rd gen but I sold the Accord so it's a moot point now.

The engine bay on the 3rd gen Accord is pretty big on it's own. An H22 shouldn't have any fitment issues or cramping like it does on D/B series ready Honda's. Not so sure if a big domestic motor would fit in there though. Better off throwing it in the back I suppose.

[GScivic7]

what about instead of an SBC, a Ford 289 or something like that?