My Car has Died!

[OrangeBrooke]

Hi All, A few questions for ya!

I have a 1993 Chevy (Poop-A-Near), I mean Cavalier.

Here's my story.

Just last year 2003, I put in a New-2.2L engine in my car. It has been running good since.

The only problem I had was Piston-Knock, I hear that's a Common thing with these type engines, So I don't think about that much.

Now, 3-days ago, My car started having problems again, It wanted to stay started but didn't, I checked the following things:

Fuel pump--working.
Fuel pressure--working.
Spark--working.
Coil--working.

Fuel Injectors--2 seem to work alittle & the other 2 are like you would turn the hose on. (These need changed yes, But gas is still getting in the engine, So it should ack like it wants to but doesn't).

Havent checked, Coil or Sensors, yet.

After I checked all these, I tryed starting it again & it wanted to start, But felt like it was choking for alittle to stay started then died, Now I get nothing but the starter turning, The motor doesn't seem like it wants to start at all!

I don't think over flooding can cause this, The motor would still try to start right?

PLEASE HELP!

Thanks, Gene

[godenm]

sound like maybe I.A.C. valve ,pindle may not be seating properly,probly needs cleaned. as for this ''piston knock'',i could be wrong but i dont think ANY bottom-end noise(pistons,wristpins,mains or rod bearings etc) could be good!!!

[4dr92cavi4cyl]

Try the EGR valve, it could be stuck. I know mine would do the same thing, I stopped to get gas and when I went to leave it would turn over but not start. Find the EGR valve (4dia. round metal, with holes under it) push up from underneath and it should move. What year is it?

[OrangeBrooke]

It's a 93 Chevy-Cavalier 2.2L 4cyl.

I havent tryed anything more yet, Still waiting on New Injectors to get here.

I.A.C-Valve seem to be fine & clean. (How would I check to see if this is working right?

Stuck EGR-Valve never heard of that, But I will try it once I get the car back together!

Thanks

[public]

I think your piston noise may actually be in the valve train. That is the known noise on these engines. As for the not starting issue. I would check the above items. But you may be on the right track with the injectors. Excessive flooding will cause the condition you describe. Good Luck.

[OrangeBrooke]

OK, I changed over ALL of the Seals on the Fuel-Injectors and it started up, But it seems to run for just a few then dies out.

When I pull the thorottle up alittle it stays running, But when I let the throttle go it will ack like it wants to die or just dies period?


I checked the Fuel-Injectors, Fuel-Pump, They are working right.

Is there anything else I should check?

Thanks, Gene

[OrangeBrooke]

Help!

[hupkwondo]

I'm still wondering if your problem is spark or fuel. After the engine starts, the ECM takes over supplying spark and fuel, during cranking this is supplied by the ICM. However, since you say if you open the throttle a bit, it stays running, no?

I'm also assuming the Check Engine light isn't on. If it is on, take a look at the code with either a scan tool or by getting the light to flash the codes.

Then look for a broken or missing vacuum line - you might be able to hear a hissing sound if the engine is running - an open vacuum line can cause the engine to die, even if its getting spark and fuel.

Next, figure out whether its a fuel or spark problem - again, spark is controlled by the ECM after the engine is started. Get a timing light and hook it up to one of the spark plug wires - it doesn't matter which one. Get someone to start the engine while you operate the timing light - does it die out before the engine dies (got a no spark condition)? Or does it continue to flash but the engine dies anyway (fuel starvation problem)?

Once we know which system to diagnose, we can take it further.

[OrangeBrooke]

I have changed over the Fuel-Filter, Wow talk about dirty. Brown gas, I'm glad I changed this anyhow. I also changed the O-rings on the Fuel-Injectors, Cleaned up any gum & oil that I could find thoughout the engine, Checked all the Senors for dirt & good contact (Haven't checked to see if all the sensors are working or not, But I believe they are (guessing on this part), Checked Air hoses, EGR, All the above are working fine.

Originally Posted by hupkwondo

However, since you say if you open the throttle a bit, it stays running, no?

Yes it does stay on if I hold the throttle open alittle-bit It also dies & stays on sometimes, It seem to do both. "Stay-on or dies" It does both at different times???

I'm also assuming the Check Engine light isn't on. If it is on, take a look at the code with either a scan tool or by getting the light to flash the codes.

The check engine light is off while the car is running.

broken or missing vacuum line.

I looked but didn't fine any problems with the hoses!

Next, figure out whether its a fuel or spark problem - again, spark is controlled by the ECM after the engine is started. Get a timing light and hook it up to one of the spark plug wires - it doesn't matter which one. Get someone to start the engine while you operate the timing light - does it die out before the engine dies (got a no spark condition)? Or does it continue to flash but the engine dies anyway (fuel starvation problem)?

Never heard of this being done?

Thanks, Gene

[hupkwondo]

Well, the engine requires a fuel/air mixture and a spark at the right time to run. If you lose one or the other, the engine won't run. We are in basic problem diagnosis - which one isn't being supplied at the right time? A timing light will tell you that, or a spark detector. For me, a timing light is easier. You could also hook up an oscilloscope, but I'm betting you don't have one of those.

As it is, we're guessing its a fuel problem, although if you've checked the pressure at the fuel rail (40 psi or so), replaced the O rings and cleaned up the injectors its hard to see how they could be at fault.

You could check to see if your injectors are firing by plugging noid lights into the injector harness, but I'm guessing it wouldn't start at all if the injectors weren't firing. Are you sure you plugged the injectors back into the harness in the correct order? I've reversed them before and usually the engine won't start at all, but if its bank injection rather than sequential injection it might start - worn't run well though.

Could be a IAC problem. Could be a TPS problem. The EGR valve might be faulty. Even the O2 sensor or the MAT sensor could cause this. The crank or cam sensor could be bad, the cam pickup cracked. You could check each one - the resistance or voltage of most of the sensors is listed in a good manual like Chilton's or Hayes.

If it were me, I'd settle the fuel/spark question first. Then at least you know where to start. Or, you could just randomly replace parts until it runs again.

Greg

[public]

The fact that it runs if you hold open the throttle points to the Throttle Position Sensor (slight possibility of IAC). The idle spot gets the most wear. This causes the position signal to be bad. Think of an old radio volume control when it gets scratchy. They work in a very similar manner.

As for the above advice about timing. I would ignore that since the timing on this car is not adjustable. The timing on this engine can be off if the timing chain jumps but that is it and that is waaay off. Besides, if your timing was off it would not run better when you ran the idle up by hand. (you have a stock cam)

Good Luck.

[hupkwondo]

Guys, I'm not suggesting you change the timing - you can't by mechanical means. I'm just using a timing light to detect the spark to make sure we've got consistent spark.

[Fireplug]

You say you check everything. What is the fuel pressure?? You tested all injectors with a noid light?
After you get it to run and you keep it running by holding the throttle open let it die and pull the plugs and see what they look like. Any fuel fouled or wet with gas?? Any white (lean)

[OrangeBrooke]

Originally Posted by public

The fact that it runs if you hold open the throttle points to the Throttle Position Sensor (slight possibility of IAC).

I will check these out, But how would I do that?

[public]

Originally Posted by hupkwondo

Guys, I'm not suggesting you change the timing - you can't by mechanical means. I'm just using a timing light to detect the spark to make sure we've got consistent spark.

Cool, that will work. Just wanted to make sure we are on the same page here. Sometimes I am way out in left field :-)