wheel clearance w/17's & tokiko hp

[E Man]

Anybody got wheel clearance issues? I have a 1993 civic si hatch and recently put 17" Konig Tantrums with 205/40 rubber and Tokico HP springs and struts. My problem is that under hard cornering, my rear wheels are bottoming out on the outer edged of the wheel well. Anyone had similar experience and what can I do about it? It only happens under hard corners---before the springs and sruts, I would bottom out under cornering and with big dips in the road. I know my rear suspension was totally sagged out but thought the new stiffer suspension would solve the problem. Any ideas. Possibly a rear sway bar? Not sure what to do. I know some people out there are running 18's on the civic hatch. Please help. Thanx, E

[Hermansader]

Easy fix, sell the 17s and get a set of 15s. 17s dont belong on an eg hatch.

[E Man]

thanks for nothing smart ass

[xproductionz]

haha... for those of you wit 7th gens if u get 18's make sure ur tires are like around 205/35 cause mines rubbed with 205/40... now i jus got some 17's and make sure u use at least 205/45 so that way it gives it the full look

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by E Man

Anybody got wheel clearance issues? I have a 1993 civic si hatch and recently put 17" Konig Tantrums with 205/40 rubber and Tokico HP springs and struts. My problem is that under hard cornering, my rear wheels are bottoming out on the outer edged of the wheel well. Anyone had similar experience and what can I do about it? It only happens under hard corners---before the springs and sruts, I would bottom out under cornering and with big dips in the road. I know my rear suspension was totally sagged out but thought the new stiffer suspension would solve the problem. Any ideas. Possibly a rear sway bar? Not sure what to do. I know some people out there are running 18's on the civic hatch. Please help. Thanx, E

Tokico Blues arn't real stiff shocks at all. The are stiffer than stock, but they arn't as good as say, Koni yellows would be. I know you got the blues, but if you reallu want a good shock, get Koni Yellows. Tokicos also tend to blow out quicker with any drop 1.5" or so. Ray at Tokico told me on the phone at "any drop below 1.75" will result in a reduction in suspension travel." This means the shocks don't have full travel beyond that, which is BAD. If you have a 1.75" drop or less and they blow, you can get them replaced, but it's a pain in the ass and not worth it IMO. The general rule is blues are not good for anything more than 1.5", tokico claims they're fine up to 1.75."

Anyways, how low is your drop? If you have a 2" drop, and what springs did you use? The drop height and the stiffness of the shocks play a roll in all this. As I said, the blues arn't that stiff. If your springs arn't too stiff, and you have a 2" drop, then that's probably why your rubbing. You have less room for suspension travle before you rub now that you are lowered. If your shocks and springs arn't that stiff, and you dropped it enough, you'll rub under hard cornering, etc, becuase now when your suspension compresses, it has less room to compress before it hits. A rear sway bar would probably help with the cornering issue, but not with the dip in the road issue. For that, most likly raise the ride height, get stiffer shocks and/or stiffer springs, or just live with it.

[E Man]

I went with the tokico hp kit-----1.5 inch drop stiffer spring rate springs with matched tokico struts. The struts are supposed to have more dapening strength to match the stiffer spring rate. I bought them as a matched kit. I don't plan on going to the track, so this kit has no adjustment. I knew if I bought coil overs, I would just set them once and never mess with them again. Any other ideas? Thanx, E

[E Man]

One other thing----with the Tokico Hp kit, I no longer have problems with dips in the road. Just the hard cornering----when turning right, all the weight goes to the rear left tire, and the body roll (I think) is what is pushing the outside of the tire into the inside of the wheel well (and vice vrsa with a left turn). Based on your posts, I think a rear sway bar will take care of the prob. Any good suggestions? Thanx again, E

[eckoman_pdx]

The HP's (and the HP kit for that matter) arn't really made for racing, etc...so hard cornering will have a greater effect on causing them to compress and the body to roll than stiffer shocks and springs would.

They are stiffer than stock, true. However, the HP's and the HPP kit you got are more designed to give you the lowered stance and lowered center of gravity, while mantaining a somewhat civil ride qaulity. I stiffer set won't roll as much under hard cornering, but the ride is much stiffer. If your main concern is only reducing the body roll, sway bars should help out with the problem.

[CivicSiRacer]

Well all these answers are mostly wrong.

Let's start with the offset and width of your wheel. That would help figure things out. You need a 17x7" wheel with 42-44mm offset to make things work.

If you don't feel like getting new wheels you can try rolling the fenders, but it depends on how far out your wheels stick out.

[E Man]

I have Konig Tantrums 17x7 with a 40mm offset. The rubber is Hancook 205/40. I purchased them at discount tire direct and used thier "what will fit my car" way to purchase. Apparently they should have suggested a wheel with more offset. There's not much I can do about the offset---correct? What a bout fender flares? I do have some rust around the rear wheel wells---Chicago winters you know. Any ideas would help. I just spent 800 on the wheels and tires & 800 on the Tokico hp set up with install and alignment. I really like the way the 17's look but they are rubbing even during moderately slow turns and I don't want to ruin the new rubber. It is only the outer lip of the wheel well that is rubbing. I checked under the car with a flashlight and there is plenty of clearance everywhere else. Please continue to help. Thanx, E

[eckoman_pdx]

Just to clarify, the answers to why shocks compress, what effects how they compress, etc is not wrong. Stiffer vavled shocks and springs with a higher spring rate WILL compress less, meaning less body roll. With a spring rate, a spring rate of 220lbs/inch means for every 220 pounds of pressure applied, they will compress 1 inch. If the springs have 340lbs/inch spring rate, it will take 340lbs of pressure to compress those springs the same 1 inch. The later springs are stiffer, and of course will help give you less roll. However, the ride will be stiffer as a result, and is considered less comfy. Now with shocks, it's simlier. A stiffer vavled shock will require more pressure to compress than a softer shock will. Since you said at first it only does this under HEAVY cornering loads, this is why I said stiffer shocks and springs my help. I was not aware since you didn't say, that it did this under moderate loads. I have heard of the fronts rubbing before when dropped on blues, but not the rear. Since it will reduce the body roll and take more pressure to compress, you my not compress enough in the end to rub. However, this doesn't solve WHY you are rubbing.

Now sway bars ALSO reduce body roll. A lot of OEMs use sway bars to help cut down on body roll, so that they arn't forced to use stiffer shocks and springs, thereby reducing ride qaulity. Now depending on your goals in handling (front bais, rear bais,jackasssi would know more specific as to what roll bar sizes will effect you how in the front, rear, etc), you can use front sway bars, rear, or both. This is another way to modify a suspension to reduce body roll. More often than not, a combo of stiffer shocks/springs and sway bars are used to help reduce body roll.

If you are looking to cut down on body roll, as you said, and you do not wish to buy stiffer vavled shocks and springs with a higher spring rate, then sway bars (anti roll bars) will help reduce the body roll. One of your comments was "how do I reduce the body roll, it rolls during hard cornering. This will help reduce some of the body roll. It may not elimiate the rubbing, depending on the wheel offset, how low you are, etc. But it will help.

I remember that a 40mm -44mm offset was the recommened offsets range for a 92-95 civic, which I believe you said you have (I realize thats a little different than civicsiracers answer). I belive I have heard this from more than one tire/wheel place, as well as from Dazz motorsports. Call up Konig or their distrubtor and ask them the proper offset. If they were wrong and CivicSiRacer is correct, then you'll want to know the wheel offset is indeed the issue. The manufacturer should know what the offset should be, if you are indeed concerned and want to double check.

Maybe it is indeed an offset issue, that I do not know. I just know you wantewd less body roll, and if you still desire less body roll, sway bars will help givew you less body roll without having to replace the shocks/springs with stiffer ones. If it's only rubbing on the outside of the wheel well under hard cornering, rolling the fender may indeed help with problem, especially when combined with sway bars. Even if it is the offset, if you still want less body roll in the end, look into sway bars (anti roll bars).

[E Man]

Well, I rolled the rear fenders and that did the trick. I used a piece of 1.5" pvc and a block of wood. With the rust I have around the rear wheel wells, I ended up cracking the paint a little, but I'll deal with that when I get the body work done. Now the rear tires only rub under the hardest of cornering---and I mean HARD cornering. Thanx for all the suggestions. And by the way, rolling the fenders only took about 1.5 hrs and was really pretty painless. I searched on google and found tons of sites/posts of "how to" and went for it. Worked like a charm. Thanx again. E

[CivicSiRacer]

Actually that's what most people do. If you do get newer wheels later look for something with a 42-44mm offset instead.

I actually used a wooden bat safer on the paint

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by CivicSiRacer

Actually that's what most people do. If you do get newer wheels later look for something with a 42-44mm offset instead.

I actually used a wooden bat safer on the paint

CivicSiRacer, I am curious. I know you autocrsss, what suspension upgrades, etc do you have? Speaking of how you and E Man rolled your fenders, I met a guy once who used "a metal hammer" to roll his rear "fenders." Talk about doing it in a manner that will damage your paint, lol.

Anyways, E Man, I am glad to see that rolling the fenders basically did the trick and that you found it pretty easy to do.

If you still desire less body roll now, even though you don't rub for the most part anymore, sway bars should help reduce the body roll/sway some.

[CivicSiRacer]

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