Buyers Beware of 745Li!

[Heidi528]

Yes, another dissatisfied Bimmer owner here. This is my 7th BMW, so I'm not unfamiliar with them at all. I've had an '02 745Li for 14 months now. It's been driveable about 12 months out of that. 19,000 miles in, the navigation system has been replaced twice, the exhaust once, battery twice. Various software upgrades - and downgrades when the upgrades screw up the car - have been performed; they take about a day each. Parking sensors have been replaced, and other computer modules along the way. Current problems? Transmission stinks. Go up a hill slowly, the transmission downshifts. Get to the top, and either drive in that low gear or play with the gas pedal to remind the car to shift. Same issue going downhill; it won't shift back to where it should be on its own. If I'd wanted manual I would have bought manual. I've had comments from passengers about that issue. The navigation system is hard to read (I'm on an '04 version now), and loves to freeze up at the most inconvenient times. If it's not freezing up, the display is telling me to go one way, the voice another. Half the towns in my area don't seem to have any driveable roads, according the BMW. The streets simply don't exist when trying to put in information. There are random error messages. Like reminders to put the car in park before turning it off. Always helpful when driving down the interstate. Or nasty notes about needing a remote to drive. (Gee, what is that thing in the ignition?) The memory is that of a geriatric patient; it forgets settings, and likes to reset everything to metric when least expected. Pushing the start button occasionally starts the car. Other times it just runs the battery down. Currently, the car is swearing that I have a flat tire. Darn if I can see it! At least it's the rear tire today. Yesterday it insisted it was a front tire. My dealer promised a buy back last fall. It's the end of June - I haven't had any success. On Friday, in desperation, I went to the Audi dealer and signed for a 2004 A8L. I pick it up tomorrow. I then went to my BMW dealer and pleaded one more time. "We're working on it." BMW's last offer was that if I gave them back the '02, plus $5000, I could step into the '04. Sounds good, but... I paid a 30 month lease in advance. If I take their offer, they'll allow me to start a new lease without penalty. In other words, every penny I've put into the lemon is lost, and I'm back at square one. And I'm supposed to accept? The original terms were I give them the '02, they give me the '04, and we call it even. Same terms, buy out at the end, etc. Why should I pay more than I already have? I didn't ask for these problems. I'm even willing to put out the extra $5000 for tax & title, although I shouldn't have to. Their offer causes me to lose everything, tens of thousands of dollars. So I plan on picking up the Audi, parking the BMW in the driveway (I just don't feel comfortable or SAFE driving it anymore), and hire a good attorney to do battle. Seems BMW feels they already have my money, so too bad. Anyone else out there in the same situation? Most of the '04 owners I've met had their '02's bought back. I'm stuck with an expensive and worthless toy. If anyone has any bright ideas, comments, or similar - email me at [email protected]. And wish me luck!

[csieminski]

I'm very sorry to hear about your problems--that's ridiculous! I've heard of BMW being very uncooperative with other issues as well--specifically to some owners of 740i lemons built in 1995--so maybe there is some precedent for your intended legal actions. Also, there was the alusil vs. nikasil in-warranty engine block trade surrounding the early 4.0-liter V-8's in 1993 and 1994. BMW did this for free for most owners, and extended the warranties on the new engines.

Both my 1986 528e and my new 1990 535i are/were wonderful and very trouble-free, exhibiting none of the problems of your 745Li when it was brand-new. So BMW (as I'm sure you're familiar, having owned 7!) can really build some great cars that last. I've heard the first model year is never good to buy, but...

Certainly your 2004 A8 L will be much better than the BMW (I'd buy one too if I was shopping in that price class!).

Best of luck sorting this out with BMW.

[Heidi528]

UPDATE - picked up the Audi today. Went over to BMW - this time the owner of the dealership came to talk with me. Now they're saying that if I give them $5000, I can have the '04 even exchange. "Collateral exchange" they called it. I'm not crazy about giving them any money, but by the same token $5000 for a 2 year newer car isn't a bad deal either. I'll believe it when I see it. Just what I need; $150,000 worth of cars in my driveway! And BTW, the Audi is sweet. BMW could learn a lot from their navigation system and the computer interface as a whole. User friendly, easy to use and understand.

csieminski - either you're an attorney or should be. You "speak" clearly and with knowledge. Before I accept the new offer, should it actually be given, I'm going to run it by my attorney to make certain I'm not on the losing end here. Others have voiced their opinion that I should hold out for more than just a trade. I tend to agree, but it's better than nothing.

[csieminski]

Thanks, Heidi528. I thought you were being sarcastic. I'm actually a 21 year-old Junior American Studies major. More than one person has told be I should study law, but I'm hesitant to spend more time (and money) in school after I graduate. But then what can one do with a bachelor's degree today?... Oh well.

So, therefore, don't take anything I say as educated advice.

Have they actually made the offer or not? Even if they have, it sounds like a last-ditch measure to keep you as a customer, and I suppose settling with them is your decision. When you factor in depreciation (which on a 7-Series is higher than any other BMW model), $5,000 for a 2004 is a great deal, as you said. I'm sure the new 7 will be much improved, but you already said you liked the Audi. Anyway, the dealership will inevitably look out for their own interests before yours; given the money and time you've already spent, do you really want to give them $5K more? And if you get the new 745Li, what will happen to the nice Audi?

Of course, you should talk to your attorney.

[Heidi528]

No sarcasm meant at all. Your writing is that of a learned person; that's good. One of my best friends is an attorney, so I actually like the breed. Unfortunately this is beyond her area of practice.

The offer was made verbally. One of several offers in the past 9 months or so. I'll believe it when it's in writing. I agree, a last ditch effort... In any event, the BMW is paid for until December of 2005. I did a prepaid lease to avoid payments until my new business was going well. Sort of like deferred financing with a large down payment. I think that's why they feel they can shuffle me around. They already have my money! I'll keep both cars. I've committed to the Audi for a few years, and since there are no payments on the BMW for quite some time I don't have to worry about that. If BMW makes the switch, then in 15 months the car will be worth much more than the buy out - I hope - so I can buy it out and keep it or sell it for a small profit. To return it after all this would be an anti-climax, and most likely not the best choice. Do I need 2? Hardly. Which makes me think I'd rather skip their deals and demand all my money back, period. All of it. Including the extra charges for added insurances, taxes, etc. Which would then pay off the Audi, or most of it in the end. At this point I'm not even sure I want to take the '04, except for the fact I'm a Bimmer Lover at heart.

[csieminski]

I suppose ONE ideal outcome would be for BMW to give you the '04 WITHOUT you paying the additional $5,000. The deal might then be considered final (and fair) by both parties. As I said before, BMW's initial offer will inevitably be more favorable to them; the company might be willing to negotiate somewhat--and $5,000 is small potatoes in light of what you originally put down for the car (lease or no). Still, you don't want to push them if they're hard set on their offer. Having owned 7 BMW's (I'll assume all or most were bought new) gives you significant leverage over an average BMW owner! If you really love BMW's so much (I can identify), why don't you get all your money back and buy a CPO 2001-2003 540i or M5 or 2001 740iL--you could get any of those for well under $50K--and have some $ left over.

For some odd reason, I can actually feel what you're going through. In April, one day before I was to go up to NJ and pick up my 535i, I had a nasty headache after a long day at work, and ran my Acura Legend under a truck that stopped (for no reason) at the end of an on-ramp. This caused $2-3,000 of damage to a car that's only worth about $3,000. (The truck did not stop, so fortunately my insurance is not involved). All the damage is above the front bumper, and the car is still completely driveable. A couple weeks later, I actually sold the car to a guy who said he'd fix it himself for $800. A week after that, he called me and said he decided he didn't want the car, so I bought it back rather than get into a legal argument (in the future, always put EVERYTHING on paper--making verbal promises, even if they seem reasonable and straightforward, is not enough).

Now I have a driveable but wrecked car next to my BMW, and while I wouldn't hesitate to spend $3K to fix it (I really love that car), that money could be spend to buy a nice little 325is that's in good condition--or applied to a newer 540i if I got rid of both my cars.

I guess it's just a case of whether one really needs two cars, and whether it's better to keep or get rid of one that's "defective" in a broad sense of the word!

[mayoslc]

Check with your State Attorney General's office to see if they have a lemon law. I have a friend who has an 02 745i, nothing but problems. His driver side passenger headrest still goes up and down when someone sits on that side. Had another friend who just dumped him 04 545i because of problems with first new production model. He brought an 04 Audi S4. Mr Chris Bangle (Bo Jango's) has some really problems on his hand. BMW quality is going downhill. Japanese and Amercan models are now beating Bimmers at cheaper prices.