Factory 15's

[NOBU-SAN]

Can you run steel 15's for performance type driving? I know tires have more to do with it than wheels, but can you run 205/50/15 on these? Why doesn't anyone do it? Is it that they're ugly? I always say how much I like the stealth approach, and these look stealth! Especially with the big hurting hub caps on them. I don't want to rice lower my car, so I'm planning on using Neuspeed sofsport springs on bilsteins. I'm looking only for a little over an inch lowering, and I plan to do the whole suspension eventually. Maybe there will be too much wheel gap? Do you think camber kits are necessary for this? It seems to me that it may not, but this is my first H project. Thanks
Nobu

[Jetts]

i think steelies are nasty

you should get some 16" rota slipstreams with some nice tires will probally cost you like 800 bucks or more

[NOBU-SAN]

If I do go aftermarket, I don't want something flashy. I don't remember what the rotas look like, but I'll check them out. Anyone know of any low key looking 16's? Thanks
Nobu

[BullShifter]

get some civic HX wheels, they're not 15's but light as hell.
A camber kit is suggested any time you lower a civic since camber is not adjustable on civics. IMO you don't really need one until a drop of more 1.5"-2" or more is done.

[CivicSiRacer]

I went from autocrossing on 17s to 16s to my current set up with 15s. And progressively the feel and transitions from 17s to 15s was much better. The acceleration and braking alone is amazing staying with 15s. Plus more performance tires come in 15s (for Civics) than in 17s. And most 17" wheels and tires weigh about 40-45lbs, whereas my 15" wheel/tire package is 32lbs.

And since 1lb of rotational mass is equal to 8lbs. I basically shaved off 80lbs per corner or 320lbs total static body weight.

[bc200ex]

I think neuspeed soft sports will keep you just under an inch of lowering. might not be enough. maybe go with sports or Eibach pro kit?? IMO, the drop doesn't determine the rice factor - - cheap parts, cheesy wings, tons of decals, and lights do. I like aftermarket wheels . . .

[NOBU-SAN]

bc200ex, you're right. I meant lowering it into the dirt with no camber correction. IMO, that's pretty hurting. The 15s look like a good bet. I have looked into the Eibach pro kit, and am still undecided. I need this car for a daily driver- about 35mi. each way, so I'll need to have a comfy ride. Thanks,
Nobu

[BullShifter]

I drive my civic 35 miles each way w/ Pro-Kit & AGX's, nice ride/handling with the shocks set on soft - better handling with the shocks set higher, but then ride quality suffers. There is no camber kit, no uneven tire wear - just wear from driver abuse. Besides springs/shocks, a rear sway bar upgrade will help greatly.

[NOBU-SAN]

jackassi, my wife is buying me a swaybar set for Christmas. God bless that woman. I was looking at the new(?) Eibach setup and one at Summit Racing, I think it was Suspension Techniques. I hear that the rear helps reduce understeer. Does that mean that one up front will bring the understeer back? I'm not to sure, but I read this article in SCC this month, about "The 5 things you need to know about handling," and the first one was tires. The second was either suspension travel or anti-roll bars. I'm not too sure, but I want to have the suspension totally finished by spring when I plan to do my swap.

[BullShifter]

I have the ST sway bar kit, with both front & rear bars on I think there is too much understeer. So I run the ST rear w/ stock front sway(upgraded bushings & end links). Its all in the driver, some like oversteer, understeer, or neutral, I personally prefer a slight bit of oversteer. Jegs.com does sell the ST bars seperately. If you prefer a slight bit of oversteer(better handling, IMO) the larger sway will go on the rear - you want the front to "roll" a little bit for increased traction. To "tight" in the front & your may loose front tire contact under hard cornering along with heavy understeer. An understeering car is much safer than an oversteering car on the street, but not as fun. Drive it normal until you get the new feel & then do as you please, just watch out for snap-oversteer. S/O is when the car oversteers then kicks the opposite way, then kicking back the first direction usually spinning around(happens very fast) even with the best of drivers.

Suspension travel & anit-roll bars would go hand-in-hand, since basically the sway bar is reducing suspension travel - meaning less body roll. Sway bars have NO effect on front/rear movement, only left/right movement. Rear lower-tie bar will work well with the upgraded rear sway, also if you plan on hard driving(good tires) I highly suggest you get a frame reienforcement kit or weld the brackets to the frame to prevent frame tearing, it can/will happen.

Suspension is the best modification for the $$$$, IMO. If your serious about suspension, have your nice wife get you the rear sway & a book called How To Make Your Car Handle by Fred Puhn - that book gets pretty techinical.

Originally Posted by http://www.suspension.com/stam-bar.htm

1. Increasing the front spring rate and/or front sway bar diameter will increase understeer. Isn't this the problem that the factory designed into your car originally. If you want the car to handle better, your goal is usually to decrease the understeer to obtain a neutral handling car(maybe a little oversteer for you autocrossers). So why does everyone want to increase the front spring rate and the front sway bar diameter? Yeah, its easier.
   When you drive the car, seat-of-the-pants engineering will tell you the car corners better because it is stiffer and just seems better. But an astute outside observer will tell you that the front end is still sliding towards the outside of the turn. Allowing a better handling car to drive under your car(taking the inside of the corner). In other words 'your car does not turn in tight on the corners', it is still understeering!!!

http://www.suspension.com/stam-bar.htm
http://www.suspension.com/civic.htm - for sway bar bushings if you choose to use stock front.

My rear adjustable ST sway -

[NOBU-SAN]

Man, jackassi, thanks for the help. That's really good info. I always thought that the rear bar would help rid me of understeer. I actually read something in SCC this month about this. It seems there is truth in what you're telling me. I'll definitely be looking into that book. Thanks
Nobu