your recommendations on first muscle

[mentalmickey]

now i'm 25 years old, UK insurance for me has come down considerably, i'm no longer a young high risk driver, after 8 years of boy racer cars (and endless dreams of late 60's early 70's muscle cars) once i finish my current car, that's it, i'm selling it and buying US from then on.

what i really really want is a 69 camaro Z28, '69 charger R/T but due to not enough finances i'm considering others, then as i get older (and wiser) i can probably afford what i really want.

now i guess some would say a 70 cuda, but here in the UK, they actually go for twice as much as a 69 camaro! expect to pay at least £10,000 for a clean 'cuda! chevelles and nova's are not my scene sorry! i like '69 camaro, '71 trans am, '68 gto, '69 charger, '70 'cuda

so my price range is £3000 for my first classic muscle. that would at least get me decent 1978/79 camaro's, firebirds, even tatty V8 third gen camaros. but recently i have seen 1970, 1971 firebird formula 400's advertised for under £3000 and i would consider them, but then i'd only start adding trams am bits (spoilers etc) which would then lose value as i'd make it out to be something it is not.

with all the different cars out there of the late 60's early 70's era, its difficult to decide which to go for, having driving none of these cars, only seen and heard at shows, taken photos, collected books, posters , magazine features etc. this section of automotiveforums seems the best place to ask, you, the owner of these classic machines.

the idea is, for me to start off with an affordable classic and work my way up over the years. i would consider the 78/79 firebirds but i'm afraid the 'bird bonnet is not really me!

[DGB454]

I don't know that much about what the European market is like when it comes to older muscle cars.
I would stay away from any mid 70s to late 70s anything. Those were bad years for muscle cars. The compression ratio dropped below the radar even in the so called muscle cars of that time. Not to mention the rust problem.
Camaro and Firebird are always pretty safe bets. They were lighter than the Chevelles and GTOs of that same time period so it doesn't take as much building to get them to get up and go.

Musclecarclub would be a good one to PM on this one. He seems to be pretty knowledgable on these subjects. There are a few others here on the board that you might try also.

Don't get discouraged if you don't get answers on your threads right away. Sometimes it takes time for people to mosey into these specialty threads.

[Musclecarclub]

I would agree with DGB454. Your first muscle car should be pretty common, so you can get the parts - especially in Europe. I don't know what is available, but Camaros, Firebirds, and Chevelles should be the most common ones on the market. Definitely avoid the mid to late '70s. They just weren't as strong as the earlier cars.

[cannibalrights]

Everybody has there own opions

[jessiewayne]

I disagree with the other replies( no disrespect intended). A second Gen Camaro is well within your budget. Get a 4-speed car and with a little tweaking of a 383, your on your way to a 11 second car. I have personally built several for customers that were very pleased. The money you save over buying a 67 to 69 camaro, can be put to good use under the hood. A 383, 9.6 comp. AFR 190 heads a comp cam 280 magnum with a 4- speed and gears is a killer combo. Once its paid for, find a 67 to 69, pull your performance parts off the second gen, put them on the first gen. This is the avenue I took and now I have a 69 z-28 with a 383 that runs 11.77 on 93 octane gas.

[FortechMini11]

i suggest any nova between 68 and 71 with a small block, you may wanna consider it as a drag car in the future

[cannibalrights]

How much is £3000 in US $'s?

[burnM]

I think it's about 6grand..

[pimp_squeak]

bit less than six grand...and the issue wasnt the affordability of the second gen F-bodies but it was power and quality issues....in the mid 70s fuel became unleaded requiring lower compression ratios and as a result lower power ratings...anyway....firebirds have always looked better than camaros:P lol

[GearHead1214]

well very nice choice in cars but sorry to say ur not gonna get a 69 z28 for 6k at least not with the engine.....srry but thats funny. these were equiped with the best performing small block chevy made, almost nodody knows this. the DZ302, yes chevy had a 302, had a 4.00 bore and a 3.00 stroke!!! this car was rated at about 280 hp and 280 lbs of torque for insurance purposes, but it actually pumped out an amazing 450+ hp and torque and could rev to about 8 grand without batting an eye. so good luck findin that u will be a very happy man if u do. now the '71 trans am, '68 gto, '69 charger, '70 'cuda are all very good cars, with the gto's weight in mind.... but as u said prices are high for most of these over there. personally i have no idea what it is but i can imagine. if u really want a 69 z28 buy a 69 standard plain jane camaro and buy the dz motor and make a clone, unless ur goin for the tags...

-GearHead

[68chevelle]

kinda off topic, but i was just wondering. gearhead, where did you get those power numbers and the RPM's for the 302 from. im not saying its not true but i would just like to know where you got that from. i didnt even know they had a 302 in 68&9 until i read your post and then looked it up on my own. give me a link or a book that says that or something but if its only hearsay then i would probably have to say who ever told you that was probably mistaken. if ayone else knows of this or has herd of this let me know cuz i havnt and i would just like some saporting info on this.

[68chevelle]

ok well mostly never mind. i did a little more research and answerd all my question. i learn something new every day. my chiltons starts at 68 and i dont feel like trying to dig up my dads so when did they come out with the 302? was it is 67 just for the camaros?

[GearHead1214]

yeah the 302 was first used in 67 but they only put it in the Z28. it only pushed out those #'s in 69 though, 67-68 it was roughly 400 hp and a little over 400 lbs of torque. I am very sorry i dont have the link anymore to where i found that, but it was a site some guy had made after researching from the history book of chevy, he had printed aticles and everything from 67-69. if u look hard enough im sure u will find this all to be true. believe me, when i heard that, i looked for about a week straight tryin to find proof it wasnt true, but surpisingly it is.

-GearHead

[GearHead1214]

Ok well, ive been looking and looking and i finally found the supporting info that u wanted 68chevelle, i provided the link to the 2 pages. One gives info about the origin of the Z28 and the other is all about the 302, INCLUDING numbers. Now dont just look for the HP and stop because as u read the first numbers it gives are saying that the 302 was underrated at 290 hp, as i said before, and was really at 350. But if u read further it says the modified 302 that chevy used in the trans am racing series pushed out 450 HP and adds to that, that one tester likened the 302 Z28 to the power of a 426 hemi. Im sorry it took me so long to find these numbers and facts for u but i hope it was worth the wait for you, it definitely was for me.

Now these pages are very long and go into extreme detail about the history of the first generation Z28, so be prepared to read!! http://www.holisticpage.com/camaro/camaros/z28.htm that was the page to the info on the car, this one is on the DZ302--->http://www.holisticpage.com/camaro/camaros/302.htm

Enjoy!

-GearHead

[koeb$]

if ur market is anything lik the market in the states, i wud say get a early 80's or later 70's trans am, they are still new enough to find parts w/o the aggervation n cost of parts for the older cars