changing Timing belt, ran into some problems.

lorddarkice · #1 05-28-2005, 05:12 AM

this is a 92 AWD eclipse turbo BTW.

ok a few questions about the timing belt.... why do the tensionors have timing marks? what would make it so that i could not 'lock' the oil pump gear into place? it doesn't feel like anything is turning.

we skipped locking the oil pump in time, and just 'set' it in time. had everything lined up perfectly, and after doing the 1/4 and 2 turns the oil pump was off by at least 4 teeth, and the crank was off by 1-2. we did this 3 times and every time got the same thing. and yes, we tightened the belt up. it did not skip teeth. no, we dont have the "special" tools, we improvised. i think the problem is with the oil pump...

anyone run into this problem? gimme a heads up.

PS.
anyone thinking of doing there own timing belt/balance shaft belt... omfg. this is the HARDEST belt i have ever done. this car is a bitch. dont do it with the motor in the car (really) you might save time by pulling it. lol, ok, not really, but it would make things 100000000000000 times easyer.

kjewer1 · #2 05-28-2005, 10:28 AM

The oil pump sprocket turns on a different ratio than the crank and cams. I believe you have to make 6 complete turns of the crank before the oil pump sprocket will be aligned to the marks again. Give that a try.

lorddarkice · #3 05-28-2005, 03:26 PM

can someone eather post a pic of the plug for the hole i need to stick a screwdriver in? or descibe it's location? i cant figure out wtf is going on here. i can 'feel' the oil pump moving, but its not rubbing aganst the screwdriver. and i have the Tbelt. trying to aline that bitch without a belt on, i have spun it 5 zillion times trying to find the fucking hole.

so i must be in the wrong hole...

lorddarkice · #4 05-28-2005, 05:08 PM

ok, how far down the block is the damn plug? i have decided that the bolt i think is it is not it. there was one more bolt that i thought might be it, but it is some 6-7 inchs down from the gear? anyone here do there own repair work?

kjewer1 · #5 05-28-2005, 05:20 PM

There is an easier way. Put the mark on the sprocket at 12 oclock. If it falls toward the mark, it is in phase. If it falls away from the mark, its not in phase. Rotate one full turn, and try the test again. It will fall toward the mark.

It really does pay to read the vfaq.

lorddarkice · #6 05-28-2005, 05:23 PM

i read that. but i cant make it STAY in time while i am putting the belt on.

for some reason even IF i have everything lined up perfectly once i do the 2 roatations the fucking Bshaft gear is off by 2-3 teeth and the crank is off 1-2. cams are always good to go... i am wandering if i have the wrong belt or some shit.

kjewer1 · #7 05-28-2005, 05:29 PM

You must have missed the part where I said you need SIX rotations for everything to line back up, IIRC

Also in the vfaq.

lorddarkice · #8 05-29-2005, 01:02 AM

according to the printout that i got from a freind of mine's SHOP it takes two. according to the BOOK i bought on the car, it takes two. but, just to rule out everything, i will try doing it more than two tomorrow. then we will see if i opened my mouth and inserted my foot in it or not.

edit: read through the VFAC. nothing really usfull execpt a decent pic of the Bshaft plug bolt. it says

"Rotate the crankshaft a ? turn counterclockwise, then rotate it clockwise until the timing marks are aligned again. Crankshaft position should still be at the No. 1 cylinder TDC position of the compression stroke."

which is... and the jury says... 2 rotations?! omg!! i was right! wow! but i will try more than two...

on a side note... thank you very much (honestly) for showing me the VFAC page... didn't know that was out there.

kjewer1 · #9 05-29-2005, 01:59 AM

Quote from VFAQ, "NOTE: Crankshaft may need to be rotated up to six turns before all sprockets are properly aligned and the rear balance shaft is in phase, due to the oil pump-to-balance shaft gear ratio"

Thank you, very much (honestly)

I've done more tbelts than I can count. I dont post things I dont know to be true, or have extreme confidence in being true. On the rare occassion that I do, I post disclaimers. Above, I said 6 turns, if I remember correctly. I'm glad I check the vfaq, now I know that I do indeed remember correctly, and can now sleep well tonight with a clean concience (not honestly).

lorddarkice · #10 05-29-2005, 03:04 AM

#31 Rotate the crankshaft a ¼ turn counterclockwise, then rotate it clockwise until the timing marks are aligned again. Crankshaft position should still be at the No. 1 cylinder TDC position of the compression stroke.

NOTE: MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF THE TIMING MARKS ARE STILL ALIGNED.

32#-------------
33#-------------

#34 Back off the special tool and rotate the crankshaft SIX complete turns clockwise.

my timing is off after step 31, before the 6 roations. so you were right, you do have to rotate 6 times, after you get the timing lined up and turn in 2 times. NOW do you see what i am talking about?

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html <-- for those who dont know were the quotes are comming from.

joemathews · #11 05-29-2005, 05:31 AM

If you have all of the timing marks lined up and the oil pump sprocket in phase, you are doing things correctly. The dowel pins should be in the 12 o'clock position on the cam gears. Then, for step 31, you rotate the whole assembly until the timing marks line back up. If that means more than 2 times, keep turning. If they do not line up again, you have a tooth or two or three off somewhere, and you can go back and make sure they're correct.

FYI, the 2g timing belt procedure is nearly the same. It was a lifesaver when I did this on my motor. I had few problems, aside from my tensioner not being set correctly. It might be worth checking the 2g VFAQ article, because it has many pictures as well.

lorddarkice · #12 05-29-2005, 09:53 AM

ok, i'll check the 2G VFAC as well. i'ma give it another go today and try just turning it untill it lines back up. but i think it is odd that the shop manual and the repair guild both say specificly 2 turns...

at any rate, i do think i had the Bshaft off by a gear or two, being that i couldn't find that stupid plug (bad advise from someone) and that would be why the belt was off at a different number of gears for diff gears, but dead on with the cam gears (which i know were right, easy to see and cliped in place).

95GSX sorry i was a little bit of an ass, i was very annoyed yesterday lol.

kjewer1 · #13 05-29-2005, 01:40 PM

I dont blame you at all.

These cars annoy me every day of my life.

lorddarkice · #14 05-29-2005, 02:16 PM

well, got everything lined up. just need to get a tap and "make" the special tool for the tensionor. ...then see if it stays lined up... and see if it runs, or if it is fucked up...

kjewer1 · #15 05-29-2005, 02:51 PM

If the marks stay lined up, and the gap between the tensioner body and tensioner arm is between .15 and .18 inches, you can't go wrong. Well, assuming you didnt leave any bolts loose or any other boneheaded mistakes that apply to all automotive work.

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