What is this, LeSabre timing option "WA2"?

[happydog500]

In the summer, when dealing with my sending unit, I came across, "LeSabre timing option "WA2".

Now, when looking into Transmissions, I am running across the same option, "WA2"

What is this, "WA2" that keeps popping up?

I can't find anything on the internet about it.

Thank you,
Chris.

[HotZ28]

wa2

merchandised pkg bonneville gxp

[happydog500]

Originally Posted by HotZ28

wa2

merchandised pkg bonneville gxp

What does that mean?

[HotZ28]

Evidently the same as the GM code: MX0....MERCHANDISED, TRANS, AUTO PROVISIONS, O/D
What is your trans SPID code located on spare tire cover, M13? If so, you may not have the WA2, or MXO option!

[happydog500]

Without looking (late, cold, and parking is a block away), mine is without WA2. If I don't have it, what does that mean?

Chris.

[HotZ28]

IIRC, “WA2” was used to identify an updated lock-up strategy for the torque converter and when changing the TC, you need to use the correct TC for the WA2 equipped cars. The WA2 code may be on the transaxle rather than the SPID sticker. Another way to get the info, is to ask your dealer to run a VIN check for you. Tell them what you are looking for!

[happydog500]

I'm not looking to see if mine is (already know it's not), I was wondering what WA2 was.
Wonder how the sending unit could be different depending on the TC?

Do you know what the updated lock-up strategy is? Where all the cars one way, then at a point, they updated from then on? Or do some have one way and others have another way at the same time (like an option)?

Does it lock up sooner, longer? Seems like the TC would be the same, an, "updated strategy" wold be done by the computer?

Chris.

[HotZ28]

Originally Posted by happydog500

Do you know what the updated lock-up strategy is? Where all the cars one way, then at a point, they updated from then on? Or do some have one way and others have another way at the same time (like an option)?

1996-up converters are built to be compatible with GM's PWM TCC apply strategy which means that you can use the newer converter on the older trans, but not the older converter on the newer trans.

Does it lock up sooner, longer? Seems like the TC would be the same, an, "updated strategy" wold be done by the computer? Chris

Starting in 1998, GM revised the lock-up strategy again, only this time the TCC may never completely lock up and may always slip about 20-60 rpm, depending on the vehicle. This means that even the carbon clutch units would not work well for these applications thus GM started using woven-graphite TC clutch material. IIRC, the woven graphite TC's should not be used in any earlier transmissions because the lockup will not work correctly.

[Jrs3800]

HotZ28 is right... It is an updated lockup strategy...

I have not seen too many 97's with this code.. But when doing a rebuild and using the shift improver kit you have to know if the Trans is a WA2 to do the build properly...

The basic PWM Apply on the 92-95 Transmissions works like this... The apply when commanded will send the Lockup from 0% to 100% in about 7 seconds, this aids in a softer apply... In the earlier cars without the PWM Apply the TCC solenoid was either on or off... And when commanded on the apply could have been a bit abrupt, there were a lot of customer complaints about the TCC apply in the older units.. so the PWM Apply allowed the PCM to better control the apply..

The 96-97 is a little bit of a different animal... And they use a slightly different clutch material.. But these cars can allow for a low speed lockup, say 28 Mph light throttle... And again the PCM will vary the PWM apply from 0-100%, but it can be as long as 20 seconds to apply.. and load factors will change the apply %.... On a tool as you are driving in lockup you can watch the apply % change due to load factors..

So like stated, WA2 has to do with the Lockup Strategy..

[happydog500]

Thank you for the explanation.
Wouldn't a % clutch make it wear out quicker?

I can get a transmission out of a 1998. There where two that year, one a, "MN3", the other a, "MI5". The MN3 is an, "enhanced".
Do you know what that means?

Chris.

[Jrs3800]

That was part of why GM went to a different clutch material... Even the PWM clutches are quite good and its extremely rare you'll ever cook one...

If we are talking about your 97, you will have to have a 4T60-E.. and Being that you don't have WA2, there are several years of 4T60-E that you can use.. But you need to use the correct converter for your car not the trans.. you could use a 1994 LeSabre Trans, but you'd have to have the newer converter... If that makes sense.. Don't go out and buy a Trans.... We would need to know exactly which one you have first, and then what trans you are looking at... There were differences between them...

Like Bo stated the newer converter can be used with the older strategy, but not the other way around... I have said this somewhere else... But I recently used a 97 4T60E( without WA2 ) in a 1993 Le Sabre.. Had to swap out the wiring harness to make it work...

Maybe I missed something, but is his thread due to the WA2? Your not really looking for a Trans right?

[happydog500]

Well, I wasn't until now. Since I had people who know about transmissions, I thought I'd ask.
The local wrecking yard has a 98. They told me there was two that year, one a "MN3", the other a, "MI5". The MN3 is an, "enhanced".

I have a known problem, something about a "transmission valve problem" that's common with this transmission, that makes it seem like an engine miss (OD).
I also have a howl when I drive down the street.

I got a quote from a trans shop of $2,800 for a rebuild. Actually, $2,800 to $5,000.

I figure the 98 Lesabre Trans in the wrecking yard, with 83,000 miles, for $350 would be a good swap.

If it works, depends on the "MI5" or ""MN3".

Of course, I'd need to know what I have, but was wondering what the difference was.

Chris.

[Jrs3800]

The MN3 and the M15 are 4T65-E transmissions...

You have an M13 4T60-E.. Without some major rewiring and a PCM swap I doubt you'll be able to use the transmissions they have..

My Friend rewired his 97 Bonneville( same as the LeSabre, Just a pontiac ) H used an 05 Impalla PCM, and an 05 4T65-E trans.... He had to rewire for the newer PCM to control the newer trans... I am sure you do not want to go through all of that...

You will be looking for an M13 1994-1997... And even then this will all depend on your gear ratio...

so the MN3 and the M15 will absolutely not work for you..

You trans failure could be related to the 4th Input Hub stripping... Its more of a problem on the 4T65-E, but in rebuilding the 4T60-E's I have seen these wear as well, so its possible you may have that issue.. Could also be anything from the torque converter to the pump going bad..

When searching for a trans make sure they know your car has a 4T60-E

[happydog500]

Thank you Jrs3800,

This clears up things for me. One thing I'm not understanding is, if I change the transmission, why, if I get another gear ratio, it won't work?

To give you an idea of what I don't understand. If I was changing half the transmission, putting it with half the original, I could see how I would have to get the same ratio. I am replacing the whole transmission. If it's different ratio, why does that matter what the old won was?

Why wouldn't it be the same transmission, with a different gear ratio?

Sometimes people take things the wrong way. I hope you can see I'm not disagreeing with you, just want to understand.

Looks like my sister may of been right (hope not). My car had a bad motor. When my Dad died, I got a little money. She told me I should just forget about the car (bought from Dad), and buy a new one (used). I soaked the money into a newer motor. Spend all the money on that, only to see I need transmission work.

I almost feel like crying. I talked to two different people (trans shop, and mechanic) who both said this car, to swap out a trans is a nightmare.

Lots and lots of work, labor intense.

I don't know what to do. The only thing I can think of is to drive from the Northwest to Tennessee to spinne1's house, to have him help me, but that's to far.

I still have the problem at this thread (link below) I'm dealing with.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=967709

[Jrs3800]

Hmmm... well I understand where you are coming from... I still have my dads car... Just can't let it go...

Ok here is the deal... You can use another 4T60-E with a different gear ratio, but the PCM will not care for the different gear ratio and will have to be reflashed with the proper program for the gear ratio..

a lot of the 94-95 Transmissions with the 3.06 performance ratio used a 31 tooth reluctor wheel for the VSS( Vehicle Speed Sensor ) Pulse.. the 96-97 was usually a 30 count... this will throw of the True speed calibration off a hair.. This gear can be swapped out..

Its easiest to swap in the same ratio as you already have.. Most cost effective as well..

I should be asleep... But here goes...
This is the 93 Lesabre I put a 3.06 Trans into about 1 month ago..


My Redneck engine support...lol



What it looks like with the trans removed



This is the section of Sub frame I removed to get the trans out..



Here I had to swap out the internal wiring harness so that the 97 Trans would work with the 93's system..


In this pic the trans is bolted back onto the motor..




Heck even my 95 Pontiac Transport with the 3800 has had 2 Transmissions... I did them both...



The transmissions on these cars is not as easy as it looks... But its far from a nightmare.... Sounds to me they like to do the RWD transmissions.. I don't care to do them, but its not the worst...

If we really wanted to the trans could hit the ground and the replacement can go back in... Might be the second day before its moving under its own power tho... Too bad you don't live closer...