04 2.2 just blew the clutch?

[comet240]

hi i was just driving home and clutch was working fine then some shifting it was getting spongy then to me putting pedel to floor and u feel the plates touching some but u cant stop it

i guessing it cant be the clutch itself but the master or slave cylinder how hard is it to fix can u buy the inserts still? i remember last standard i had was a 1984 audi and u could buy the rubber boot, for the pistons how does a 2004 cav work? or where is the cylinders etc

[comet240]

so googling parts i guess these things arent serviceable it looks like
so what would have blown? the master cylinder or slave cylinder?

and the slave cylinder i seen pics of a transmission apart so does that mean you need to remove the tranny?

what components are there for the hydraulic clutch just the master and slave cylinder?

is there any pics or documents on what to do? as the hayes manual doesnt show nothing

[comet240]

ok so i got the 2 bolts off and the clip off the pedal damn small cars need a elf lol


now problem i having is they say refer to image 3.2 in the hayes book to pull back and pull out line well are they talking about the line by the transmission if so the picture of there drawing doesnt look anything like it and there is no real picture and up by the master cylinder there u cant disconnect it either

so what do i do here some pics

so i dunno how i tried pushing on screw driver by the tranny line section but its rusted so i dunno if it moves or not

[comet240]

ok here some pics i took now with the master clyinder out i cant even push it in anymore on the pedal there was no pressure now i cant even force it in

but i took pics of the connector i was able to pull the retaining pin but i cant do where they talk about push and pull etc is this a different style???

and will a new master cylinder hook up to this? without having to replace the line?

[J-Ri]

From the looks of it, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to get the new master cylinder on it.

I think you'll find the clutch works a bit after replacing the master cylinder, then will stop again. If it does, see this thread http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul....php?t=1065748. Replace the flywheel, pressure plate, clutch disc and slave cylinder. It will save you a big headache. Also, the transaxle assembly can be removed quite easily by making a slight modification to the engine cradle. On the left side, the pointy part where the support bar bolts on needs to be cut off about 3/16" in front of the bolt hole. This lets you drop the transaxle out the bottom, rather than pulling the engine/trans assembly as suggested by the engineers.

[comet240]

ok ya i wasnt able to pull it off my friend what i asked him to do was use the hack saw to cut it off we found out why we couldnt pull it off the clip was broken off and piece was stuck in

so u mean the slave cylinder wont work after?
you dont have any pics of the work you done from cutting etc
i dunno why they dont make a tranny with inspection plate say that u can easilly remove some stuff

[comet240]

i read the article what is the clutch spring?? he talks about so how does something like that get bent though or over extends how that possible?
i hope i dont have to do that

but pulling hte transaxel does that let u take the bell housing off though to replace the fly wheel etc? cuz the transaxle is just the drive shaft for the wheel is it not

[J-Ri]

Originally Posted by comet240

ok ya i wasnt able to pull it off my friend what i asked him to do was use the hack saw to cut it off we found out why we couldnt pull it off the clip was broken off and piece was stuck in

so u mean the slave cylinder wont work after?
you dont have any pics of the work you done from cutting etc
i dunno why they dont make a tranny with inspection plate say that u can easilly remove some stuff

I have a feeling the slave cylinder is what's wrong now, the way you describe your problem is exactly what happened to me. I also found out afterward that the slave cylinder failing is very common, while the master cylinder is very rare. I put my old master cylinder back on and returned the new one. I've still got the original on the car now, works fine.

Originally Posted by comet240

i read the article what is the clutch spring?? he talks about so how does something like that get bent though or over extends how that possible?
i hope i dont have to do that

but pulling hte transaxel does that let u take the bell housing off though to replace the fly wheel etc? cuz the transaxle is just the drive shaft for the wheel is it not

The clutch diaphragm spring is what pushes the pressure plate toward the flywheel, clamping onto the clutch disc. http://www.motorera.com/dictionary/p...agm_clutch.jpg Our cars don't have the fork as shown in this design, the slave cylinder is doughnut shaped and mounts around the transmission input shaft, which is why the transaxle must be removed. It is a part of the throwout bearing, and located where the throwout bearing is in this image.

I'll take a few pictures of where you cut the engine cradle. I meant to detail this years ago when I did it, but forgot to. I can't take credit for the idea, I read about someone else doing it, just wanted to illustrate it to make it easier.

The bellhousing stays attached to the transaxle, you remove the bellhousing from the engine and the transaxle stays attached to the bellhousing. A transaxle is basically a transmission for a FWD car. It is called that because it contains the TRANSmission and also contains the differential for the AXLE.

It's not a bad job, took me about 5-6 hours the first time I R&R'd a Cavalier transaxle, but that was on a hoist. If you end up needing to replace the slave cylinder I'll give you some tips, but for now lets hope you don't need to.

[comet240]

oh wow well that sucks if i have to do that like i hoping just the medal as u can push the clutch pedal with ur finger very easily till u get like inch from the floor and then has pressure and thats how u feel the plates

so how does the salve cylinger over extend? is it not like a piston can only go so far

ya no hoist here just the 2 ton car jack my 1984 audi i did was easiier was in center of engine and u droped back and down cuz it was a inline 5 cylinder

so then ya the transmission has to come out or the bell house why i dont know why they cant make a plate covering the hole be nice so u can change the cylinder without doing it but they dotn favor home repairs just the mechanic lol

[comet240]

also in canada you cant buy the pieces anymor for a clutch u buy it fully assembled now and the parts i guess as u cant just buy the fingers or the plate etc seperatly

[comet240]

so me and my buddy put the new master cylinder on and tried to bleed it she doesnt bleed it squeezes out but it doesnt build up pressure just a tad at the bottom so u can pump the clutch by hand he figures hole in line but u dont see oil coming out of it

so now what?

[comet240]

so whats the exact procedure to get the tranny off the engine?

i dont have a engine hoist just got a 2 ton jack and some jack stands

i have to goto sick kids hospital for my son wednesday and monday is a holiday in canada so i need to try to get parts i need do i need a new line or just a slave cylinder? i dont think i need a new clutch ? as i could just press as quarter inch and it was bitting a bit


but i run chip truck all day too so i need to do this at night so faster is better lol with limited tools too what tools do i all need

also why replace the flywheel?
do you buy it as a kit pre assembled? as in canada at least you cant buy a clutch in pieces they bolt it together and make you buy the whole thing as people miss align it or something

so does the fly wheel come attached with the clutch?

[J-Ri]

Originally Posted by comet240

oh wow well that sucks if i have to do that like i hoping just the medal as u can push the clutch pedal with ur finger very easily till u get like inch from the floor and then has pressure and thats how u feel the plates

so how does the salve cylinger over extend? is it not like a piston can only go so far

ya no hoist here just the 2 ton car jack my 1984 audi i did was easiier was in center of engine and u droped back and down cuz it was a inline 5 cylinder

so then ya the transmission has to come out or the bell house why i dont know why they cant make a plate covering the hole be nice so u can change the cylinder without doing it but they dotn favor home repairs just the mechanic lol

The cylinder overextends because the parts it moves wear and allow more travel than was intended. The bore is only so deep, and when the piston gets to the end, it can't go any further without dumping fluid out.

It's actually not a terrible setup, I've seen much worse. I would bet that your clutch disc just about worn to the rivets, which means you would be replacing all the components very soon anyway. On most cars, the clutch disc will wear out and slip, which could leave you stranded. The good thing about this is that it's possible to drive the car for a while if absolutely necessary. I drove mine for a few hundred miles by starting it in first gear, slip shifting up and down, and shutting the engine off to stop.

And take my word for it, the engineers do not favor the mechanic . It's easier with the proper tools and equipment, but it seems like they go out of their way to make it as difficult as possible to work on for everyone

Originally Posted by comet240

also in canada you cant buy the pieces anymor for a clutch u buy it fully assembled now and the parts i guess as u cant just buy the fingers or the plate etc seperatly

As long as you get all the parts, it doesn't matter. This setup seems extremely sensitive to wear, so best to replace everything while it's apart. It's no fun, even on a hoist, you don't want to do it twice up on jack stands.

Originally Posted by comet240

so me and my buddy put the new master cylinder on and tried to bleed it she doesnt bleed it squeezes out but it doesnt build up pressure just a tad at the bottom so u can pump the clutch by hand he figures hole in line but u dont see oil coming out of it

so now what?

Sounds like the slave cylinder is leaking. See if you can get enough pressure to make brake fluid leak out of the bellhousing. Better to be absolutely sure it's leaking and not just that all the air isn't bled out.

Originally Posted by comet240

so whats the exact procedure to get the tranny off the engine?

i dont have a engine hoist just got a 2 ton jack and some jack stands

i have to goto sick kids hospital for my son wednesday and monday is a holiday in canada so i need to try to get parts i need do i need a new line or just a slave cylinder? i dont think i need a new clutch ? as i could just press as quarter inch and it was bitting a bit

but i run chip truck all day too so i need to do this at night so faster is better lol with limited tools too what tools do i all need

also why replace the flywheel?
do you buy it as a kit pre assembled? as in canada at least you cant buy a clutch in pieces they bolt it together and make you buy the whole thing as people miss align it or something

so does the fly wheel come attached with the clutch?

The exact procedure is long and complicated, your repair manual should go into the detail required. Basically... remove the following: Battery, air intake ducts, air filter box, cv shafts (need to remove lower ball joint from steering knuckle), starter, all except the top two bolts from the bellhousing (there are two in the rear of the engine near the thermostat, one is hard to see, I've got an old block in my shop, I'll take a picture of the bolt pattern for you) seven total I believe, line from slave cylinder, shift cables, reverse switch and vehicle speed sensor. From memory, that's it. Look and make sure nothing else is connected to the transaxle. Now remove the last two bolts from the top of the bellhousing while supporting the transaxle from the bottom and slide it toward the drivers side. It has a splined shaft that runs through the clutch, it must be clear before lowering the transaxle on a floor jack.

The clutch replacement is pretty simple, remove cover bolts (six if my memory serves me correctly), remove the clutch disc if it doesn't fall off, remove the flywheel bolts (six here too, I think). You really should use new bolts for the flywheel, but I didn't and I was fine, they hold up to roughly 250HP just fine. The bolts DO NOT come with the flywheel as I assumed they would. Order from a parts store, don't use regular hardware store bolts. The new clutch should come with an alignment pin that you stick in the crankshaft and it keeps the clutch disc while you install the cover assembly. Tighten the cover bolts about one turn at a time and in a star pattern to keep the cover from flexing too much.

Now install everything you removed.

When I did this solo, I found it easier to install the transaxle by lowering the car down, and essentially bench pressing it into place. It's well under 100lbs, probably not hard to do, depending on your build. I tried with a floor jack first, and just couldn't get it to line up right.

I replaced the flywheel because after replacing just the slave cylinder, and having to do it a second time in nearly 100º and high humidity, I wasn't going to run the chance of having to do the job a third time. At the very least, you would have to have the flywheel machined, which would reduce the thickness and make the slave cylinder more likely to blow out again. You can't get as a pre-assembled kit because you have to have it apart to install it, although you can (and should) get a kit that has all the parts.

I think the reason you can't buy the individual pieces is that it should all be replaced together, you still have to align it, but it's as easy as sticking a round peg in a round hole. The clutch self aligns as soon as you press the clutch pedal in to start the engine.

[comet240]

ah ic ic wow still alot of work so i cant tell if the fluid is leaking in the bell housing as the fluid doesnt go down only when bleeding least we didnt see anything but figure its sucking air so buddy figured to silicone the at the master cylinder but dunno we havent tried it yet ill have to see if the parts store can order the kit and fly wheel so it doesnt come with the fly wheel the kit? how much did it cost for you? canadian tire shows 709 for the clutch kit no price for a flywheel


and you said i dont have to remove the transaxle? but wouldnt i have to pull that shaft out to be able to drop the bell housing? and ya show the pics and when you can for the cut mark and bolt location and by cutting the fram that lets you drop the bell housing straight down? ya ill have to get another car jack then i just have 1 car jack some bottle jacks and some jack stands

ya i guess they build the engine and then build the car around the engine it seems

[comet240]

so the clutch kit is 400 and the slave cylinder is 200

i can not get the fly wheel guess thats a dealer thing