Asking advice

[stuart83]

Hi all,

I'm guessing there are a good few people on this forum who know what it is to really love a car. This question is for you. I'll appreciate any advice.

I love 1991 Camries. I love how they handle and how you feel the road, and I have never driven another car that felt quite as great -- least of all in my price range. I've had two. The first was doing great at 191k when it was hit by a semi that ran a red light and, as you might guess, was totaled.

After flirting with a newer car, I replaced it in '06 with another '91, with 118k miles. I've driven that car 114k miles in 38 states. I have many great memories of driving places with it, and always loved driving it. Of late -- over 200k -- it had started to get expensive. The transmission was dodgy from the day I got it, and I finally got it rebuilt for 3k. They did an excellent job and it has a lot of time left on the warranty.

Second, it started leaking steering fluid 18 months ago. Faster and faster. It got to where it would go through it in 10 days. I took it to a couple shops, and both said that virtually everything in the steering system was leaking, and it would cost me north of $1500 to fix. (One said $700 first, but upped it once I gave the green light and they started looking close).

Somebody said to try Lucas additive, so I did. Eight days later, I hit a deer late at night and destroyed the front end of the car. I got a quote for fixing it, but it was just too much ($2700), so I sold it to the body shop for $400.

I replaced it with a very nice '96 Camry for $2700. It's nice, as I say, and I like it pretty well -- but it's not my other car, and it's not a '91.

I went back by the shop today, and they have completely fixed the car -- it's drop-dead gorgeous, and they want $1750 for it. That would be a net of $1350 for extreme front damage, which is not bad at all. And I love the car.

On the other hand, it's got the ticking time bomb of the steering system, waiting to go out and cost me another $1500, and the body shop thinks the compressor may go out within a few months too. (I live in the south, so going without is not a viable option).

Here's the thing. I could technically pay to have these problems fixed -- I have the money -- but it would leave me with less money than I like left over, and no good way to replace it in the near future.

What would you do? Would you buy back a car you really love for $1750 and just risk what comes with the steering? Or would you just move on? I know this is an easy decision from a Blue-book perspective: leave it. But walking away is a lot harder from a personal perspective. I drive 30k miles a year, and having a car I love means a ton.

Thanks a lot for any thoughts.

[Moppie]

Hi stuart83, welcome to AF!

I know what to say about loving a Toyota Camry, not what most people would consider the worlds most lovable car, but I do know a lot about loving cars.

The problem is anything from 1991 is now 20 years old, and in car terms that is getting on.
The fact that a 20 year old car now, can still be considered a reliable form of transport is good testament to the level of engineering, as 20 years, ago driving a 20 year old car meant you were mad and loved to spend more time fixing it than you did driving it.

But, 20 years is old for any machine, especially one that experiences the level of wear and tear a car does.

What you have to do is weigh up the cost of running and maintaining such and old car, vs just how much you enjoy driving it.
You just need to be prepared to put more money into it than it would cost to buy a later mode, and more reliable car.

I did it for a number of years with 1973 Triumph 2500TC, then with a 1990 Honda Civic SiR.
Then I realized that I simple couldn't afford to keep spending on money on something I was just using for transport when I could make better use of the money else where.
So I bought simple, cheaper later model cars.

Now I'm looking at having more of a disposable income again, I am thinking more about buying a car that will be expensive to run and less sensible, but far more enjoyable to drive than my current one.

[stuart83]

Thank you very much for the response, Moppie.

I thought about this for several days, and finally decided to buy the car, after having looked at it again that morning. Alas -- it had just sold! Live and learn, I suppose, though I am not _too_ heartbroken. I am glad I had decided to buy it again, and in some odd sense was loyal to a loyal car. I also am OK with not sinking thousands of dollars, as I would have had to.

Your points are really well taken, actually. I don't have tons of extra income right now, and would have been depleting dwindling savings from an earlier point in my life. In a few years, I hope to have more income again, and I am already seriously thinking about tracking down a really good '91 Camry at that time and doing what it takes to get it fixed up, and drive it around. Meanwhile, this car will probably do well.

Thank you again for the response, and for the welcome!

Stuart

[Moppie]

Your welcome!

It's always nice to get a bit of a sounding on these things.
I know I wasted a good house sized deposit on cars when I was younger, and I plan to waste considerably more when I'm older

AF is all about talking about these sorts of car loving related things!


Is there something tangible about the 91 Camry that you love so much?

[Moppie]

Your welcome!

It's always nice to get a bit of a sounding on these things.
I know I wasted a good house sized deposit on cars when I was younger, and I plan to waste considerably more when I'm older

AF is all about talking about these sorts of car loving related things!


Is there something tangible about the 91 Camry that you love so much?

[stuart83]

Yes -- well, there are several things, which are tangible but add up to be an intangible, if that makes sense. I like the steering, which is very tight and precise, with a great wheel. I like the suspension, which is reasonably firm, so I can feel the road well. And the car is both fairly small, relatively heavy / solid, and somewhat low.

All this (and possibly some other things which I've tried, but failed to identify) add up to amazing handling, and a full sense of the speed you're going. I live in various places, but one place I drive a lot is East Texas, which has many narrow, winding, hilly roads with decently high speed limits. This car sits completely reliably and predictably in the middle of the lane while I swoop around turns at 60 -- it's a wonderful feeling, and yet there's little danger, because the car is so well under control. I know where all four corners are, so to speak.

I've driven other cars in East Texas too -- one of them over 40k miles -- and they're just not the same. If I forget and drive like I'm in the '91, I scare myself spitless at the first turn and have to start slowing way down.

The gas mileage was superb -- important if you drive as much as I do. In my first '91, I could get 35 mpg or up. On this one, which was never quite as sound, I usually got 30, and maybe 32 in optimal conditions.

Also, despite the 4-cylinder, 2L engine and admitted lack of great acceleration, it was a perfectly game little car and would do 70-80 on the interstate without a thought, comfortably all day long. I never really had a problem passing in it or the like.

And finally, I just loved the look. That might put me in a minority, but I thought the car had really great lines.

What are your favorite cars?

[PressKean]

Alright. Here's my honest opinion. A very straight forward one.

If you're really that much in love with the car, go ahead and grab it. As a car lover myself, I know how hard is it to leave the car you like most. However, we're all living in reality and money is something very important. If you value your money, then you'll have to leave it.

I'll advise you to actually get going and try tonnes of other cars. Be it 10, 20 or even 50. Just try them! You may be able to find something to your liking. Try not to get cars that are too old. Every machine has a life spam regardless of how well maintained the car is. Just my two cents

[stuart83]

PressKean,

Thank you for the response. I appreciate it. Sadly, as I mentioned in a just-previous post, the car sold to somebody else right before I decided to buy it.

I kind of regret my hesitation, or at least, I regret not having the car. I've thought several times about the memories I had with the car. On the other hand, it wasn't an easy decision, and I can't pretend there was some magical way to make it faster, so that is that I suppose.

I do appreciate the advice. By the way, I'd actually love to go out and try tons of other cars to try to find one I love as well (a more recent one perhaps), but I'm not sure how to do this. Most used car places don't seem that happy letting you test drive if you don't plan to buy that day. Advice?

Thanks!

[Moppie]

You can always tell them you want to buy a car today, drive it, then say you didn't like it

I do

[PressKean]

Originally Posted by stuart83

PressKean,

Thank you for the response. I appreciate it. Sadly, as I mentioned in a just-previous post, the car sold to somebody else right before I decided to buy it.

I kind of regret my hesitation, or at least, I regret not having the car. I've thought several times about the memories I had with the car. On the other hand, it wasn't an easy decision, and I can't pretend there was some magical way to make it faster, so that is that I suppose.

I do appreciate the advice. By the way, I'd actually love to go out and try tons of other cars to try to find one I love as well (a more recent one perhaps), but I'm not sure how to do this. Most used car places don't seem that happy letting you test drive if you don't plan to buy that day. Advice?

Thanks!

One way that I've thought of is, test drive a new car instead of a 2nd hand. When you've found a new car that suits your needs, then go for the 2nd hand ones and if you sound like a serious buyer, anyone would definitely let you test drive

[Chris V]

My advice is to try a LOT of other cars if youcan't find another '91 Camry. I realize you love your Camry, but trust me, the '91 Camry is NOT the epitome of good road feeling, good handling cars. If it were, they'd be the cars enthusiasts want and frankly, they are ill handling, poor road feel, non responsive cars compared to others, like BMWs and sporty cars. If you like the feel of a '91 Camry, then you'll be blown away by a mid '90s BMW 3 or 5 series, and you can get either in your price range.

I bought this car for $1200 and in the last 6 months since I bought it, it has needed a mere $100 in work to be a driver:



You can find one of these in your price range easily enough:



It's the car the Camry was trying to be, and they are easy to maintain and are everything you like about your Camry, but enhanced and made better.

[stuart83]

Thanks Chris! I will definitely check one out. They look nice. Not the same timeless body style as the '91 Camry, but you can't have everything, I guess. ;-)

If you don't mind my asking, what kind of gas mileage do you get in your BMW in practice (highway)?

Thanks PK and Moppie as well. I'll give that a thought.

[Chris V]

Originally Posted by stuart83

Thanks Chris! I will definitely check one out. They look nice. Not the same timeless body style as the '91 Camry, but you can't have everything, I guess. ;-)

If you don't mind my asking, what kind of gas mileage do you get in your BMW in practice (highway)?

Thanks PK and Moppie as well. I'll give that a thought.

The gold one pictured gets about 25 mpg highway, but it has an automatic (bought for my daughter in law and that's what she wanted for a first car). My BMW 740iL gets 27-30 mpg highway, though considerably less in the city. The 5 series I pictured with a manual transmission can get about the same.

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by stuart83

Thanks Chris! I will definitely check one out. They look nice. Not the same timeless body style as the '91 Camry, but you can't have everything, I guess. ;-)

You must have it bad if you love the styling of a Camry

A 5 series BMW is considerably more car than a Camry, performance, build quality, spec, design, there is a good reason they cost a lot more when new.

Just be wary of getting one of the lower spec versions with the smaller engines. They can be under powered, and a bit disappointing to drive.
Avoid the 2 liter 5 series or 4 cyl 3 series if you do find one to drive.

Also be warned, the driving experience is a lot more rewarding and involving than a Camry. ITS very different, and could take some getting used to.

Originally Posted by Chris V

The gold one pictured gets about 25 mpg highway, but it has an automatic (bought for my daughter in law and that's what she wanted for a first car). My BMW 740iL gets 27-30 mpg highway, though considerably less in the city. The 5 series I pictured with a manual transmission can get about the same.

That is impressive mileage for a big car.
I would love a 5 series touring, quite a poplar car here, and the older ones are becoming very affordable, but have been wondering what the running costs would be like.
I currently get about 30mpg out of my Accord, which is a smaller, lighter car, with a smaller engine.

[amy@af]

i love my 1988 civic. while i know my specific civic has seen 300,000+ miles, i also expect to have to maintain it. however, i often see other 1988-1991 civics that little old grandma's have owned from mile 1, been sitting in the garage, & only makes it out once a week for errands....i'm talking 40,000 original miles kinda of cars.

if you really love any specific car that is older, just find one as just mentioned. you'll pay a little more but you'll get the car you love in perfect condition.