sanity check please for my upcoming UIM / LIM fix

[RustX7]

I believe my 2001 LeSabre has leaks at both the UIM and LIM gaskets. It may just be the UIM but I plan to do the LIM while I'm in there. I am definitely losing coolant (albeit very, very slowly) and there is evidence of oil leaking at these gaskets. Here are pictures (sorry for the low quality, it's the best I can do right now):





My questions are:

1) Is this the kit I want to buy? - http://www.ineedparts.com/auto-parts...kit-17806.html

2) There is a link at the bottom of that page to a LIM gasket that it says is the right one for the job, but isn't there the possiblity of needing a gasket that is "pinned" or "not pinned"? Isn't that an unknown variable until you get the LIM off? If so, should I wait and not buy that gasket? My concern about this stems from this thread: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=700916


3) I believe I can see the fabled elbow that everyone talks about breaking when they remove the LIM - the piece that goes from the tensioner into the LIM sure looks like an elbow to me. But, tapping on it, it seems like metal. I thought they were plastic? Assuming I'm wrong, and I break it like everyone else does, that elbow doesn't seem to be included in that kit from my question #1. What is the proper name for that elbow so that I can buy it somewhere? Do you suppose Autozone will have that?

Thanks very much in advance for any advice. I'm hoping this will be easier than it looks, like everyone says, but I guess my biggest fear is unknowingly buying the wrong parts and thus being faced with a big delay and lack of use of the car in achieving this fix.

[imidazol97]

Originally Posted by RustX7

I believe my 2001 LeSabre has leaks at both the UIM and LIM gaskets. It may just be the UIM but I plan to do the LIM while I'm in there. I am definitely losing coolant (albeit very, very slowly) and there is evidence of oil leaking at these gaskets. Here are pictures (sorry for the low quality, it's the best I can do right now):


My questions are:

1) Is this the kit I want to buy? - http://www.ineedparts.com/auto-parts...kit-17806.html

2) There is a link at the bottom of that page to a LIM gasket that it says is the right one for the job, but isn't there the possiblity of needing a gasket that is "pinned" or "not pinned"? Isn't that an unknown variable until you get the LIM off? If so, should I wait and not buy that gasket? My concern about this stems from this thread: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=700916


3) I believe I can see the fabled elbow that everyone talks about breaking when they remove the LIM - the piece that goes from the tensioner into the LIM sure looks like an elbow to me. But, tapping on it, it seems like metal. I thought they were plastic? Assuming I'm wrong, and I break it like everyone else does, that elbow doesn't seem to be included in that kit from my question #1. What is the proper name for that elbow so that I can buy it somewhere? Do you suppose Autozone will have that?

Thanks very much in advance for any advice. I'm hoping this will be easier than it looks, like everyone says, but I guess my biggest fear is unknowingly buying the wrong parts and thus being faced with a big delay and lack of use of the car in achieving this fix.

I just had mine done with the APN from Ineedparts.com that you show.

The lowers they offer together with the upper may be fine.

My problem turned out to be the throttle body gasket. The car had a recall done where they put on different taps wtih spring washers to keep pressure. But the gasket they used was thin and when the UIM warps from heating and cooling, the gasket didn't have enough thickness to maintain a seal. GM should have done a recall on the gaskets on the throttle body.

The lowers had a couple of the rectangular seals around the runners distorted inward and the plastic matrix was about ready to break and the nylon sealing parts seemed still intact. I did have a pooling of coolant coming up in one of the pockets in front away from the throttle body end. So the mechanic and I had surmised the problem would be lowers. But if I had cleaned my throttle body at 80K miles and put on a new gasket, I wouldn't have had this at 107,000, because the leak was easy to fix at the throttle body.

The coolant elbow is available from the HELP (Dorman) racks at parts stores. The mechanic broke the elbow on mine.

[happydog500]

I used the same one you posted on the link. I like this one the best. I was very determined not to break the elbo. I did.

It was on a weekend and was told on the forum it was dealer only. I went to shucks and they had it.

My advice would be not to take the kids word when he says, "no, that's a dealer only item." Tell him it's the Dorman/heater hose fitting - part #47065. Best to call around so they can check. I hate when they say, "no", then I go down the isle and find what they said they didn't have.

Chris.

[RustX7]

Thanks for the part number! Is it implicitly the same on the 2001 as your 1997 because of the same engine?

Also I guess my only recourse is to buy the kit without the LIM gasket and then wait and see whether mine is the pinned or unpinned type and then go get the right one from the store at that time?

Also thanks for the warning about the throttle body gasket... I hope I can find a felpro one or something superior to the GM gasket!

[happydog500]

I thought why use a GM Gasket, when it's been a problem.

Chris.

[RustX7]

Did you end up finding a non-GM one for the throttle body?

[happydog500]

Is the one that comes with the kit orange?

[RustX7]

I don't know, I don't have the kit yet, but from the picture in the link about it looks like the UIM gasket is orange. It doesn't show the TB side of the UIM. It describes the gaskets that come with it as "Improved High-Temp Carrier and Throttle Body Gaskets to prevent coolant leaks" which sounds like aftermarket.

[happydog500]

I think we used fel-pro lower and the one that came with it for the upper. The pined and unpinned is a later and earlier. I can't remember which one is which.

My "1997" was made in 3/96. The 97 Lesabre was the earliest 97 car to come out that year.

I can't remember for sure, but I think mine ended up not mattering. It could be used with both. I'll ask my friend if he remembers, but I think it didn't matter. I know, it sounds stupid, but somehow it didn't matter.

Chris.

[RustX7]

It doesn't sound stupid. That's actually what I've been reading on other sites. I think what they're saying is that if you get the pinned one for a car that doesn't have the pin holes, that the pinned part of the gasket just ends up hanging off the edge and not mattering. If that's the case, then I think the only concern might be if you got the unpinned one for a pinned motor. Even then perhaps it doesn't matter. But I tend to be real paranoid when I have engines open like this so I like to have the right thing...

They also say that they introduced the pin business in 97 but they don't say if it was changed over to that completely for all post-97 motors. I've seen a few messages at least that say "you don't know until you get in there."

[RustX7]

Well I just called the GM dealership here and the guy said they only list one LIM gasket for an 01 LeSabre (about $64), but he didn't seem to know much about the whole pinned/unpinned thing. Seems like that might be an issue for the earlier models.

[imidazol97]

Originally Posted by RustX7

I don't know, I don't have the kit yet, but from the picture in the link about it looks like the UIM gasket is orange. It doesn't show the TB side of the UIM. It describes the gaskets that come with it as "Improved High-Temp Carrier and Throttle Body Gaskets to prevent coolant leaks" which sounds like aftermarket.

The APN upper had a nice thick black throttle body gasket already on the end of the upper!

[Jrs3800]

The Pinned unpinned doesn't really matter for the 1st design block, either or can be used... On the Blocks with the pin hole carrier for the end seals you want the pinned... So you can use the newest gaskets on the older 3800 II.. No issues there..

[imidazol97]

The mechanic who did mine for me this time said he likes to let the silicone on the lower intake gaskets cure overnight before he reassembles the lower and up. Makes sense to me. That's the only advice I can offer other than use different containers for the various bolts and screws from different parts of the diassembly--and label the paper cups or whatever you use. I used stickon labels for some things.

[C man]

I used zip lock bags and a strip of paper keep up with the screws. I have the earlier block and had the the pinned set. It doesn't matter. In fact I installed the end seal backwards on the rear of the engine and use the old end seal for the front part and it doesn't leak one bit. Plus the dealership only sells the aluminum gaskets and it will likely be pinned, it does prevent you from installing the gaskets upside down. And as everyone else has stated their will be a 100% chance that you will break the elbow.