Clifford XL100 - How to remove?

[Joe789]

I have a 98 Olds Intrigue.

To keep it short - I have the alarm disabled, but the kill-switch is randomly activating.

It is fixed by resetting the alarm, sometimes multiple resets are necessary (takes between 10 min and 1 hour). This has been an ongoing problem since I bought the car (used - 2002), but is now getting bad (4 times in the past 2 weeks, and probably tomorrow).

I am getting fed up with it and need reliable transportation and just want the thing gone.

I have never worked on an alarm and am just looking for the quickest way to make it go away (do not care about being pretty with it).

Thanks,
Joe

[shorod]

What do you mean by "the kill-switch is randomly activating?" Is the car randomly stalling? If so, why do you correlate it to the alarm, especially if resetting the alarm does not reliably fix the issue?

Typically the alarms will have a starter disable, but rarely will someone install one of these to kill the fuel pump due to the risk of the relay failing and causing a running car to stall. It would seem more likely that maybe the car's fuel pump has failed causing the stalling and the delay it takes to "reset" the alarm is sufficient to allow the fuel pump to cool enough to begin working again.

That being said, if you know where the alarm brain is installed, you should be able to just unplug the alarm and remove the module to take it out of the system. If remote start was installed, you may want to replace the remote start relay to make sure you have a reliable connection there.

-Rod

[Joe789]

Thank you for the response.

"Randomly activating" means just that. Car starts fine, I go to 7-11 to buy a lottery ticket, come out, put key in ignition and nothing happens. Reset alarm, and it starts fine. I have not been able to discern any correlation as to what is casuing it to happen. Except that my "Security" light will come on. Shortly thereafter (next start of car or a couple of days later) it will not start.

Car does not stall, just will not start. Starter is fine (have had it checked several times) and battery is good (though there is a slow drain in the car - 5 year batteries last me 18 mos).

No remote start.

I do not know where the brain is. Any clue on how to find it?

Thanks,
Joe

[shorod]

It's unlikely that the aftermarket Clifford alarm is tied to the factory "Security" light. I would suspect that what's really happening is your resistor key is wearing out and activating the factory anti-theft system, hence your flashing 'security' light. Do you have a spare key for the car? If so, try that key for a couple of weeks and see if you have better luck. The randomnous of the occurance and the flashing 'security' light cause me to not really suspect the Clifford as the cause. I think the "reset" is purely coincidental.

One way to locate the Clifford system would be to find a nice quiet place, stick your head under the dash, then activate the power door locks via the Clifford remote. You might hear some relays clicking which, if you're lucky, are relays within the Clifford system. Common places would be in the center dash (behind the radio), above the glove box, near the steering column, in the center console, or under a seat.

-Rod

[Joe789]

I tried using the physical key and the problem persists.

I am going to try and disconnect the clifford and see what happens.

If that does not do it how tough is it to replace the resistor key?

Thanks,
Joe

[shorod]

Originally Posted by Joe789

I tried using the physical key and the problem persists.

But did you try using a different key?

As for replacing the resistor key, you'll have to get one of the correct resistor value and have it cut to match. There are only around 15 well-defined resistor values. You should be able to determine what yours is supposed to be.

There are also ways to bypass the resistor key. That information has been posted various times on the Internet, so I won't bother posting any links.

-Rod

[Joe789]

Tried a different key, same result.

Don't mean to ask a stupid question, but would disconnecting the Duplex Piexo Sensor kill the alarm?

[shorod]

Nope, that won't kill the alarm. That sensor is either a glass breakage sensor or maybe a 2-stage shock sensor (although they are rarely piezo) and would be considered "optional."

If you can find a wiring diagram for the Clifford alarm, you should be able to locate the starter disable line. That is the only alarm output that could possibly cause the no-start condition (or the relay that is triggered by it). The best bet would be to take the relay out of the circuit so you can rule that out the next time you experience the issue [I really don't think the alarm is the likely cause here].

In post #3 above you mentioned that the Security light comes on. Would you clarify if that is the factory security light or the flashing LED of the Clifford alarm?

-Rod

[Joe789]

Security light is the factory dashboard thingie.

I have the wiring schematic, but am not sure how to read it.

It shows an ignition switch with 3 wires coming out of it. One wire is labelled ignition (and goes to a long skinny rectangular unlabelled box that has almost everything going to it - ie. battery, valet switch, trunk switch, door switch), two wires starter. The starter wires have indications marked "cut" and are labelled "White/Red (starter N.C.)" and "White starter common". There is a third wire that joins them from nowhere labelled "White/Blue (starter N.O.)" with a reference to "see text" - I have no text.

The wires are joined and plug into an unnamed retangular box.

What would the relay look like and where do you think that might be located?

Side note - it happened again this morning. There is a valet switch below the steering column and I took off the plastic cover of the car under the driver side dash. The valet switch has a group of wires trailing out that seem to lead behind the speedometer - with two wires going to the Piezo.

Am I better off beginning at the starter, valet switch or ignition? If inside the car, is there any way to get there without having to take off the dashboard?

Thanks for your help,
Joe

[shorod]

Since the Security light is the factory light, I still don't think you have a problem with the Clifford system unless they tapped into that light instead of installing the Clifford LED.

Since your car has OBD-II diagnostics, have you tried pulling diagnostic codes, both active and pending? Maybe there is one tripped for an unrecognized key or similar. When I get some free time this weekend I'll try to find a wiring diagram of the Clifford so I can give you a bit more feedback on what you describe above. It's really up to the installer to chose a location for the starter interrupt relay. There should be a wire from the alarm module though labeled something like "starter interrupt." If you follow that wire, it should get you to the relay. Keep in mind the Clifford wiring diagram will be generic and not specific to your car.

-Rod

[Joe789]

I do not know what OBD-II diagnostics are, let alone how to get or read them. Major noob here.

Problem is that this is now getting me into trouble (would not start this morning, took 45 min to reset, written up at work for lateness).

Going to remove the alarm tomorrow and see what happens.

I am interested in where you think the real caus lies. (No doubt potentially causing problems in the future).

Thanks,
Joe

[shorod]

I still think the real cause is the original equipment Vehicle Anti-Theft System (VATS) which is what drives the flashing "Security" indicator in the instrument cluster. OBD-II is the second generation of On-Board Diagnostics. Many of the chain auto parts stores will read out diagnostic codes at no charge. It would be worth stopping by one and seeing if there are any codes related to the VATS system that the generic scan tool can read. Unfortunately to get the VATS-system codes read requires a professional scan tool.

Depending on what the consequences of getting "written up at work" are you might be best off to let the professionals take a look at your car. Maybe you'll find this is as simple as a failing starter. I don't expect that a bad starter would cause the "security" indicator to flash though.

You should also search the Olds Intrigue forum to see if this is maybe a common issue with your particular car.

-Rod

[Joe789]

Methinks there may be more to the problem than meets the eye.

Bad weather cancelled project so I have been doing some concentrated digging.

Getting codes read is a good idea, problem is that the chains around me charge between $50-100.

I would rather do the work myself regardless of how long it takes. Financial situation is dire. I am thinking about buying a code reader. Looks like there are a bunch out there under $100. Any suggestions?

[shorod]

Did you check with the chain auto parts stores? Most of the ones like Autozone, Advance Auto Parts, and O'Reilly (as I'm sure others) offer this as a service at no charge to the customer. Were you check the parts store or service shops?

There is quite a difference between the economical code readers and the more expensive, more helpful code scan tools. The code readers will just read the codes and allow you to clear them, but don't offer the ability to check various sensor parameters and readings real-time like the scan tools do. I've used an AutoXray scan tool and the OTC Genisys. I've seen the Actron in use and it seems very capable as well. The Actron also seems to be the most readily available in the parts stores. I've also used the Davis Electronics CarChip XL. This is a pretty handy little tool as well.

-Rod

[Joe789]

Will readers or scanners be able to identify what a problem is?

I do not care about bells and whistles, no problem looking up codes on the internet. I just want to be able to fix the problem.