Misfire on cylinder 1 and 5

[paradigmlxi]

Hello

I had my front engine seal replaced and immediately after that (10min) my van started misfiring and has been doing so for the last month ??? It misfires in the exact same place everyday on my out the highway and into town on the highway within 1/4 mile of each other on opposite sides of the highway but only if I keep my speeds around 110kms(65mph) or above. I can drive around all day in the city and never have a problem until I head out the highway. But today it misfired at another location on the highway. I am changing the plugs , wires and coil this week but it almost seems fuel related or elevation related because it only seems to happen going down hill or uphill

Please advise

Thanks

[phil-l]

What model year and engine is your Windstar?

[paradigmlxi]

2002 Windstar Sport 3.8L

[AvalonJohn]

Para,

How many miles on your Winnie and have you ever replaced the Isolator bolts ? Also, have you taken it somewhere to have the codes read ? If so what are the codes ? Codes P171 & P174 most likely mean that the Isolator Bolts & ERG ports need to be replaced/cleaned.

AvalonJohn

[paradigmlxi]

Approx 130,000 kms(80miles). I just bought it approx a year ago but I would say thay have not been replaced. Codes P0301 and P0305

[AvalonJohn]

Para,

I would start with some fuel injector cleaner. You may have a dirty or clogged fuel injector. Many have recommeded Berrymann's Chemtool B-12 which can be gotten at many auto stores. I'd use two treatments and go from there since that's the easiest to start with.

Also, has the car had a tune-up yet (Spark Plugs, Wires, Fuel filter) and inspection of the coil pack to see if it needs to be replaced ? You may want to do this now since it's recommeded that you'll need to do this at 96K anyway and that could be the problem or part of the problem.

If this doesn't help you can post on hear for more solutions. I"m thinking that eventually your going to have to perform the leckemby procedure to fix the misfire, but we'll see ? PO301 relates to the leckemby procedure.

Below are some codes form a post above from Wiswind that you may want to look over

*******************

P0300 Random cylinder misfire detected that PCM cannot narrow down to a specific cylinder
P0301 Misfire on cylinder 1 (rear bank passenger side) (often caused by clogged EGR ports
P0302 Misfire on cylinder 2 (rear bank middle)
P0303 Misfire on cylinder 3 (rear bank driver's side)
P0304 Misfire on cylinder 4 (front bank passenger side (often caused by clogged EGR ports)
P0305 Misfire on cylinder 5 (front bank middle)
P0306 Misfire on cylinder 6 (front bank driver's side)
Misfire can be caused by a spark issue, spark plug, spark plug wire, coil pack. or by a dirty fuel injector (very common), or nonfunctioning fuel injector
CEL will flash when misfire is happening indicating possible condition that can harm the catalytic converter(s) because if caused by no spark, raw fuel can be entering the catalytic converter.
Do a search on your P030x code for more information.

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Anybody have anything to add ?????

Hope this helps ?

AJ

[paradigmlxi]

After a lot of reading, I am starting to believe it's more like a DPFE sensor or 2 of my injectors have build up. If it was the injectors you would think it would happen all the time , especially when I kick it into passing gear. I have called all my local automotive places in my area and they don't carry Berryman's B-12 Chemtol. Anybody know where I could purchase this in Canada or a product thats almost as good.

Please advise

Thanks

[catvents]

Originally Posted by paradigmlxi

After a lot of reading, I am starting to believe it's more like a DPFE sensor or 2 of my injectors have build up. If it was the injectors you would think it would happen all the time , especially when I kick it into passing gear. I have called all my local automotive places in my area and they don't carry Berryman's B-12 Chemtol. Anybody know where I could purchase this in Canada or a product thats almost as good.

Please advise

Thanks

If you live close to the US border, Advance auto part store
has it and Walmart in their automotive dept. too. I live in Canada but never seen that here. Get mine in NY state.

[CnlK]

If timing chain cover was removed when changing front seal, camshaft sensor alignment may be off.

[paradigmlxi]

Well, the plugs,wires and coil where changed and it still does it. I took the van on a 300km trip and it misfired approx 10 times (alway on a fairly steep downhill grade), but the engine light is not staying on so I can't say for sure its the same two cylinders.I was talking to the guy who did the front engine seal and the only thing electrical he disconected was the O2 sensor. It is possible for a O2 sensor to be causing these misfires on down grade slopes at speeds 110km + ?

[paradigmlxi]

Is there anyway possible for an 0xygen Sensor to cause a misfire on 2 seperate cylinders (1&5) ?

Thanks

[phil-l]

I don't buy an oxygen sensor being the cause of only two cylinders misfiring. A perplexing problem...

[oldtechy]

Just saw an interesting post on another thread - even tho you replaced the coil and wires, look under the hood in the dark and see if there's any arcing - some aftermarket wire sets aren't any good, and you'll see sparks with brand-new wires.

Still, since it's 1&5, that's both ends of the same coil.

[wiswind]

I would try the solvent based fuel system cleaner.
There are a couple of professional strength cleaners, though I have not tried them.
The fuel injectors on the windstar tend to build up crud on the spray end.....and the Berryman's is the ONLY cleaner that I have used that worked on this.
Chevron Techron, Redline Fuel System Cleaner, FP60, and other products did not work for this....although the rest of the fuel system stayed very clean.

Cylinder #1 is on the rear bank, driver's side.
Cylinder #5 is on the front bank, middle.
So you are seeing a problem on BOTH banks #1 and #2.
As the 2 cylinders are on the same coil....you might verify that the switching INTO the coil is working.
That comes through the plug on the coil, from the PCM.

Fuel pressure is a possible, and the best way to diagnose this would be to have the fuel pressure monitored at the fuel rail (there is a connection on the front, center of the fuel rail for this), while the vehicle is being driven on the highway.
Then, if the fuel pressure takes a drop when the misfire happens, you can suspect, most likely, a fuel pump issue.
That said......have you changed the fuel filter lately?...much cheaper than a fuel pump replacement, and routine maintenance anyhow.

If you come down to a fuel pump issue.
There have been posts about the fuel pump relay in the power distribution box causing intermittent to solid failure of the fuel pump function.....also MUCH cheaper and easier than a fuel pump replacement.
This relay is something that you can easily purchase and replace yourself.
There is also a "sock" filter on the fuel pickup part of the fuel pump assembly,...but that also requires removal of the fuel pump assembly to get to.
Removal of the fuel pump requires that the fuel tank be dropped.....so I would recommend you eliminate the other, easier items first.....including the wire connections to the fuel pump.

The only thing that I would expect with an oxygen sensor would be if the mechanic crossed the wires when re-connecting them, connecting the wrong sensors to the plugs.....very easy to do, but still not consistant with your symptom.
For this reason, I tend to agree that your oxygen sensors are most likely fine.
I replaced my upstream sensors with genuine motorcraft at about 155K miles, after having had lower intake manifold gasket leaks that leaked enough to leave a green stain on one of the sensors.
In my case, I did not notice any change at all in engine performance or fuel economy.
Yes, the replacement sensors are working just great, but the old ones were still good.
When you get codes like P0171 and/or P0174, that is the oxygen sensor(s) reporting a lean condition, which is almost always a vaccum leak.....causing too much air to enter the intake, and the PCM is not able to compensate for it.
There are other codes that would indicate a bad oxygen sensor, like indicating a problem with the heater circuit, or slow switching rate, etc.
In short, the oxygen sensors on the windstar are very reliable, and rarely fail.

[serge_saati]

Originally Posted by CnlK

If timing chain cover was removed when changing front seal, camshaft sensor alignment may be off.

Yes, I think that is a spark timing advance problem. When the front seal has been replaced, the camshaft sensor has been misaligned, and it has caused a modification of the spark timing advance which has caused an intermitent misfire problem to one pair of cylinders (1 and 5).

Sometime you don't have problem. But when the engine rev up at high speed, a lot of fuel is burned in a small period of time. The fuel is not totally burned and the system detect a misfire. Especially when the spark timing is not enough in advance.

It can occur to another pair of cylinders also.