Milemarker Winch Install

[Kennedy]

Here's the deally-O
Milemarker 10,500 lb Hydraulic Winch... The choice recovery winch for the US Army to be installed on HMMWWV (HumVees).
$750 from AC with install kit.

The Electric vs. Hydraulic topic has been discussed in the passed, but I'll summarize again. Also a good article is in an old issue of 4 wheel parts wholesalers concerning the pros and cons of each. Look through your back issues.

Hydraulic Winches.....................................
Advantages:
-Lighter and usually stronger
-Little battery drain
-CAN WINCH ALL DAY LONG... NO PROBLEMS WITH HEAT!!!

Disadvantages:
-Hydraulic taps off your power steering pump. If winch fails so does your PS.
-VEHICLE MUST BE RUNNING FOR WINCH TO RUN.

Here are my thoughts. If you're stuck, I mean really stuck, and your truck won't start, winching yourself out with an electric accomplishes what? You're unstuck with a truck that won't start... and your battery may be dead now to boot unless you have a dual battery setup. Who has one of those in an X? I can only think of two individuals (War and Goth) that have went down this path.

Also, I avoid deep water/mud like the plague (The predominant environment which will place you in the above described situation). $350 a pop for alternator replacement doesn't sound like fun to me. I'll run through it when I have to, but if there's a bypass... I'll take it. No sense in needlessly breaking stuff.
Anywho... I carry a More Power Puller 6 ton come along and high lift for manual extarction just in case. I don't know why all of us don't. Last write up of the Warn I read said his solenoid failed! Stuff breaks, better have a backup plan if you're going to get serious.

I went with the hydraulic because the pros outweight the cons for the way I like to wheel. I don't mind not being the trailblazer, but rather letting my knucklehead friends break their trucks, while I get to swoop in at the end and be the hero by rescuing thier stuck asses. I've earned quite a beer or two with my "middleman" approach to wheeling. I've always been the "recovery gear guy"... I'll pull ya out for a sixer!
Other issues: Dual battery setup... not really an option for me right now. War's setup is nice, but I like the cargo area for gear, dogs, and such. Goth's may work with a little refinement later. I'll probably go that route when a cleaner solution emerges (Way to go Goth for breaking ground).
Still, dual battery may be not be enough if I had an electric winch anyway. 4 120W piaa 80 xts, 2 piaa 520s, 2 piaa 1500s, IPF reverse, 300W converter, and 600W fosgate are already taxing my one Optima and stock alternator already... Now add a winch to that (even with dual battery)! I suppose if an affordable upgraded alteranator ever comes out I might pick that up... but, the low hanging mount still scares me for water crossings.

Anyway, you can see, with my "current" no pun intended, setup, the hydraulic was a natural choice due the electrical draw I've placed on the truck as is.

Kit and Ordering: AC has a great price. Apparently MM is right next door so they get this cool price. Install kit comes with everything you need including a nice redneck style "tested to the extreme" MM hat. Can't compare paint jobs cause I don't have a Warn, but the paint looks OK to me, I'm not really sure what the other guy was complaining about. Aeroquip hoses are kick ass. The adapters leave a bit to be desired... we will discuss later in the install portion.

The electrical junction box is dangerous (see pathy guy's post), just replaced it with a weathersealed fusible link, easy fix. Had no problems with the actuation pistol either. It's actually rather beefy, long cord, I like it. Once again, not sure what the guy is complaining about (Maybe I got a new one). I mean, it's no HK USP compact ), but it is tough, functional, and it doesn't hurt to use.

First off, let me state I need a digital camera. Anyone know where I can get a Mavica cheap?

I'll do the best I can with words.
Installation:
OK, here we go.
Dropped front bumper. Winch mounted up to bumper just fine. The winch is based on the same standard as Warn (I believe 9 x 14 inches). You'll need to redrill the bottom roller fairlead mounting holes to make the upper portion of the fairlead sits inside the lip of the ARB mount. I also had to take a cresent wrench and attach it to the upper lip and bend it out just slightly so the upper horizontal fairlead roller could spin freely rather than contact the ARB lip.
Now, the cable feed hole. After installing the fairlead I discovered the wire still contacts the bottom edge of the ARB hole. This is due to the exit angle of the wire (45 degrees up). Contact with the ARB hole doesn't happen after the first layer of wire is spooled out and thus the exit angle is reduced. This problem (which it really hasn't proven to be) could be eliminated by cutting the ARB exit hole down another inch or removing about 15 ft of wire rope. Since most of the power of the winch is exerted when at "full spool out" most of the wire "should" be off the spool when pulling, and thus the exit angle problem isn't an issue when winching properly. That's why I haven't bothered to mess with this.

Hydraulics. The kit taps the PS pump and steering box to make it run. 2 aeroquip hoses and four connectors (1 Banjo for the PS pump, One L shaped for the steering box, and two stadard brass that attach to the winch). You have to remove the high pressure line that runs from the top of the PS pump, down the passenger side of the motor, across the frame and into the steering box. (Be sure to trace this hose before disconnecting). If you were so inclined you could just disconnect these hoses and leave them in place, but I destroyed the steering box end of the hydraulic line trying to remove the rusty piece o shit. I pulled the
whole line to make room for the aeroquip lines. (Be prepared... you will drain all of your PS fluid once you begin.... It's a messy install).
USE LOTS OF TEFLON TAPE... I'VE HAD NO LEAKS... THREE MONTHS!

The banjo connector attaches to the top of the PS pump. Unfortunately, the one provided is very straight and long. Installing this awkward beast into the already crowded engine (onto the PS pump) bay sucked. It was kind of stuffed into place, and had pressure on it to make it fit. I was afraid it was going to cause the hose or the connector to fail due to the weird angle I had to place in to get it to fit. Not very comfortable with this setup, I called AC to complain.
Tie Rod Mike :P was super cool here. He had me mail him the OEM connector off the line I removed. He took it over to MM had them custom fab the OEM connector with an aeroquip fitting. 4 weeks later I replaced the shitty fitting with a nice custom OEM fab fitting. This allowed me to take the stress out of the PS pump connector and feed line.
Here's how the fluid lines install. Run one hose from the PS pump (Via the custom modified banjo) to the input line of the winch (attach to winch via standard brass aeroquip connector). Then run another hose from the winch to steering box and attach via L shaped Nissan adapter. I cut the rubber fitting on the hydraulic line mounting inside the passenger side wheel well and was able to utililize most of the OEM line mounts to run the aeroquip lines. Looks very proffessional and OEM.

OK, winch is mounted, hydraulics are run.

Run the hot wire to the battery (with replaced weathersealed inline fuse holder... see above), run a ground and then connected the actuator box. Easy.

The actuator box that the pistol plugs into originally attached directly to the winch inside the bumper. It was a stupid PITA to plug in the pistol. In fact it is impossibe... The plug is oriented upwards towards the top of the bumper. I never could get my hand up in there to plug it in. Soooo... I unsrewed the aluminum box (where the plug is) and rerun the wires. Mounted the box on top of the bumper where the Warn solenoid mounts... Then an idea hit me like a ton of bricks. I removed the plug from the aluminum mounting box and rerun the wiring
through the firewall. I drilled a hole in the lower left console INSIDE the truck and mounted the plug INSIDE THE VEHICLE. Now it's protected from the elements, which is good since the plug is one of those cheapy silver plstic round 4 prong trailer connectors, and I don't have to get out of the truck to winch, but the cord is long enough to run outside the vehicle if I need to.

Usage: I've had the thing in for a few months now.
The gearing levers are not hard to reach, not that it matters though, I've never taken them out of low. Just reach through the ARB vents to switch em around. The hardest part is remembering which combination of knob settings represents which gearing (low, high, free, locked).
The PS pump make a bit more noise now... but I don't think it's a problem. I put in a PS cooler and went to redline synthetic fluid after install... that took out most of the noise. Just a slight bit of whine under hard turning now. The Nissan PS pump is a little weak (pressure wise) for the winch, but the strength is still quite adequete. I think the lack of pressure makes the winch "slower" but not weaker. I've only had to use the thing for one self extraction, but I've pulled a lot of stuff around just to test/play with it. Strength has yet to be a problem. I'm more worried about warping the bumper than strength.
Yes the ARB flexes a lot. Of camber pulls are almost scary. I'm planning on heading up to EOE someday just to have this thing stiffened up (Like goth's arb body lift mod). Unfortunately the "out of the box" mounting of the ARB is weak IMO. I think those of you with electrics can confirm this flexing.

Overall very happy. AC service has been stellar. Winch is still rolling along. My only concern is premature PS pump failure due to the added load, but I really don't think it's going a problem given the limited use of the winch. If I used it daily it may be different.

Hope this helps guys...

Some interesting links to help you research your decision:

http://www.off-road.com/nissan/mods/pathfinder/3
http://www.milemarker.com/catalog/winch-10.html
http://winchtest.com/

Whew...:sun:

[ScottG]

Thanks for the excellent write up! I've been thinking about getting one of these for quite a while. Keep us posted on any power steering pump trouble. That is the main thing I was worried about.

Another question I had concerns the location of the operating levers. If my memory serves me, from photographs I have seen it looks like the MM controles are on the opposite side of the winch from the operating lever on the Warn. My TJM bumper has a small sqare hole on the top for reaching the lever, so I was wondering if I would have to cut a new hole on the other side. I read somewhere that the MM has reverse mounting. Does that mean that you can turn it all the way around???

[Kennedy]

You can mount the winch either way... but the manual says the winch should unspool from the bottom.

You can reach the control levers by reaching through the ARB vent holes unless you got PopEye forearms.

Or you can cut the top of the ARB for access.... Nahhh.

I like it this way. If there was a hole, people would be inclined to reach into it. I like the rather stealthy profile.

[rhombus]

Great write up!
I have a XD9000 but was considering the MM before I bought it.
(Maybe I'll get one soon and move the XD to the rear )

[coolerman]

Excellent write-up! I wonder if AC will now have MM make the hoses to custom fit the X? Also why would your pump make anymore noise now? If you aren't winching the winch motor is totally bypassed. I'm sure it grunts a little more when winching!
Where did you get the PS cooler? Where does it fit in line? Why is the sky blue?

About the paint, the Pathy owner was complaining that his winch started rusting 3 days after mounting it.

Again excellent write-up dude...

[Kennedy]

Coolerman...
Not sure why the extra noise. I think pushing the fluid through the Winch is not 'directly' pass through. I think there is some resistance which cause the pump to work a little harder, hence the extra noise.

AC will jump through hoops for ya. Buy a $750 winch, and I would only expect such treatment. Give Mike a call and ask about Kennedy's winch fitting adaptation... I'm sure they can do it again, hell Mike took the idea and his own personal done too. You'll have to be patient though.

Rust... Whatcha gonna do... I haven't had much of a problem, I can tell ya that.

Here's my right up on my transmission cooler/power steering cooler install. Once again no pictures. One day I'll get around to buying a digital camera... If I could quit spending money on the truck!

Derale coolers are copper finned and powder coated black... Good Looks, Good Heat Transfer! I believe you did the install write up on the tranny cooler, but for those who missed it...

You can do both of these independent of the milemarker install:
Got both coolers from summitracing.com, but I had to call, they weren't on the site. $60 for both I believe.

I currently have a 7 x 17 Derale Model 13203...
http://www.derale.com/derale/series7...nscoolers.html



Tranny cooler was simple; if I had a digital camera I'd take pictures... I'll describe a few things to clear things up:
Note: this should be considered for all of you with an auto trans... do a search on the Internet on why... Nissan auto tranny's are known for being doo doo. 2-3K to replace too, eek!

Tranny Cooler Install:
So easy... I used the "push through" zip ties to mount it in place. Lots of room on the left hand side of the radiator (facing the front of the truck). Use a fiber optic wire flashlight to help with the "punch through" zip ties. Be careful... don't bust your radiator. Be gentle and deliberate.

Now... The line
Your tranny is partially cooled already by the radiator. For warranty reasons, you should put the coolers in series. Tranny to Radiatiator to AUX tranny cooler back to tranny. Here's how:

Lift truck; stand under it (remove front skid if you have one). There's rubber hose that exits the radiator on the lower right of the radiator. Track this hose to the metal line that connects back into the rear of the tranny (connects right under the fan shroud). This is the RETURN (read: low pressure) feed back to the tranny where you'll "splice" in the cooler.

Remove this rubber hose. Connect one hose from one prong of the tranny cooler to the radiator. Connect one hose from the other prong of the cooler back to the metal return line... That's it. Attach clamps, trim punch zip ties and add a little extra tranny fluid to compensate for the extra line. Easy mod, well worth the $40 and an afternoon. Next run I'll snap photos of which line to remove. Feel free to post questions.

Power Steering Cooler:
Derale Power Steering Cooler Model 13200
http://www.derale.com/derale/powersteeringcoolers.html



I installed one these because I have the milmarker hydraulic winch in my ARB that operates off your PS pump... Naturally I'm concerned about burning that up. Probably not an issue, but every little bit helps in my book.

PS cooler install:
Installed it right next to the Tranny cooler (lower center of radiator)... Note: you'll probably need to remove your horns and radiator temp gauge to mount the cooler. Note: I had to bend the horn mounting bracket to get to fit back in... (Hella Supertones baby!).
It mounts the same way... with the little 2 punch trough zip ties.

By now we understand how to splice into a RETURN (see: low pressure) hydraulic line (we just did it with the tranny), we just have to find one. Once again under the vehicle your facing the front (under the radiator). On your right, close to the steering box you'll see metal line which connects to a rubber hose for about 4 inches, then connects back to metal line which extends across the front of the support frame and back up to your PS pump reservoir. This is your power steering return line. Remove the 4 inches of rubber hose. Connect one end of the metal return line out to the cooler, and then extend another hose to the other end of the cooler to the metal line to close the loop. Same details as above.... Tighten clamps, trim zips, and add a little extra fluid. Done...

ADDENDUM TO ABOVE. DON'T START YOUR TRUCK WITHOUT PS FLUID RESERVOIR FULL. YOU'LL BURN YOUR PS PUMP OUT QUICKLY. FILL THE RESERVOIR CONTINUOUSLY AFTER INSTALLING! (TWO MAN JOB, ONE STARTS AND ONE FILLS)

The sky is blue since most of the different wavelengths of the visible spectrum of light are reflected back into space, except for the blue wavelength which seems to scatter best due to the molecular makeup of the upper atmosphere.
http://www.why-is-the-sky-blue.org/w...-sky-blue.html

Hope this helps...
Kennedy. Answer Man.

Getting every minute and mile of life out of his X and the toys that go with it.

[rhombus]

hehe
well I guess he asked for it

[coolerman]

Actually I knew why the sky was blue (I'm an amateur astronomer) I was just attempting to be funny as in a young child? Hmmm tough crowd, better stick to electrical stuff huh?
Anyway nice write up on the PS cooler. I'm about to order my MileMarker from AC and will get the cooler also. I will also ask about the hoses and adapters for the X
I know this thread is old but I hardly ever get time to read these post so everyone will just have to get over it

[OffroadX]

Coolerman,

You might want to read this post regarding a possible increase in PS pump output...

Brent

[Lance]

Just cruising by...noticed the mention that low pressure in the pump may be making the winch slower rather than weaker...

Its the opposite actually.

The pressure is related to the strength of the pulling power...the more PSI, the greater the pulling power.

The flow rate is related to the speed of the winch...the higher the GPM, the faster the pull speed.

You can increase the capacity of a hydraulic winch by increasing the GPM and or PSI, making it faster and stronger...pretty much directly proportional to the differences.

Conversely, if the winch is rated to pull 10,500 lb at 1500 PSI, and you only have 1000 PSI, your pulling capacity is also reduced by the same 50% (5,250 lb).

The rule of thumb is that the remote solinoid valves (70 Series) can handle up to 7 GPM, the mounted valve units (75 Series) can handle upto 3.5 GPM, except the 12,000 lb winch which can also go upto 7 GPM. All of the winches are rated at 3.5 GPM....so you can calculate what your flow rate is relative to that, and just multiply by the rated capacities at 3.5 GPM. In other words...You can double your line speed by doubling the flow rate... Or run proportionally slower than rated by using less than 3.5 GPM.

The pull capacity pressures are all rated at 1,500 PSI. You can pretty much go upto 3,000 PSI, and double rated the pulling strength, but, the point of diminishing return is the cable strength, and extra gear stress, etc. A 10 - 20% boost is considered a very safe range...Generally higher percentages for lower capacity winches, and lower for higher capacity winches. (Cable strength limited mostly)

This thread has been resurected it seems...big gap between posts.



Anywho, just wanted to set this straight to avoid newbies getting confused, etc.

[OffroadX]

1500 psi vs. 1000 psi is only 33% less...

[rrdstarr]

That and getting a big enough pump to give you 3000psi! Also having enough fluid to run at 7 gpm and still have your power steering.

[billynphilly]

I was just looking for a 7 gal per min hydraulic winch and found this discussion.My question is I have a tractor with 6.3 gpm pump and am trying to find a winch around 8000-1100 lbs that will work with my tractor.Any sugestions? Thanks.