Thanks so much j cAT I thank you the new etc sensor is due to arrive in the next few days and I was thinking that, it is not the problem. I did get a reading of the engine which I believe to be true from the scan tool on live data with the ignition turned on.. Well j cAT will install and find out if the etc was the problem as I checked a lot of the wiring for any grounds or breaks pins at the pcm etc thanks again Norm