[Cbass]

A good post, but I object to a few of your statements.

Originally Posted by syr74

Does this make me an expert? No. Does it make me more qualified than the average bear? Hell yes. I say all of that to qualify the rest of this post.

You have studied Islam, but have you studied the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in particular? Have you studied Zionism, as well?

Originally Posted by syr74

Israel has not always handled things in the best way possible over the last fifty plus years. But, they have handled them a damn site better than the Palestinians or the arab world in general.

The Palestinians in occupied territory handle their situation in one of three ways. Either they accept the reign of Israel imposed upon them, they try to leave the country, or they try to do something to fight back. Terrorism is the last resort of an oppressed people.

Originally Posted by syr74

Israel has lived with the mortal threat of invasion every day that they have existed since their modern day repatriation. Several times the Arabs tried to destroy them with no mercy shown and no quarter offered under any circumstances.

Israel triumphed every time against overwheming odds. Since that time Israel has gained the "bomb" and has essentially enjoyed a peace assured by their foes imminent destruction in case of invasion. Take the bomb away from Israel tomorrow, and the shit starts flying again folks.

Israel has been an enemy of the arab nations since it's conception. The fact that a large chunk of Palestine was given to the zionists by the British will never be forgotten.

Not content with this, and wishing to create the "greater Israel", they invaded their neighbours, after provoking a conflict, and seized key territories that the zionists believed to be part of the "greater Israel", such as the West Bank, and the Golan Heights. They did this because they knew they could, because they knew that the US would support them, and because they knew that no one had the power to stop them.

Originally Posted by syr74

I feel some sympathy toward the Palestinians. But frankly, to give up that tiny portion of land was very little compenstation considering that the arab powers that be were largely accused of supporting the NAZI's during WWII. Very few people remember this, but a major reason the US secretly pushed the pushed for the new Israel within the UN was to punish the arab nations for their "disloyalty" to the US and the west. BTW, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan all claimed a portion of the area that the UK controlled and ended up becoming Israel. Nobody had any intention of creating "Palestine"

If you remember your history, the arabs fought the Turks for the British in WW1, with the promise of a free Palestine. After the war, surpise surprise, the British were still there, and were still running the place like a colony. In fact, during WW2 the Arab nations were largely British and French "protectorates"(colonies), so punishing them for disloyalty doesn't hold much water with me. Even if they did support Germany, they had every right to, many other nations did as well, and those other nations were completely fucked over by the British.

Support for Israel in the US came from a very powerful zionist lobby, which is still at work to this day.

Originally Posted by syr74

It is often difficult for me to feel sorry for the Palestians, because they were offered the best deal they are ever going to get at Camp David under Clinton and Arafat balked at it. I said Clinton was a fool before the talks, and he proved my point during them.

Why you ask? He may have been the only person who could have convinced Israel to offer those consolations to the Palestinians, and he accomplished a great feat in doing so. But, he was a flat out sucker for believing that a peaceful reconciliation, and peaceful coexistance is what the PLO ever wanted to begin with. I cannot believe anyone ever bought into that. And, if they still believe it after the Camp David disaster they are as big a fool as Clinton.

Do you honestly think the deal Arafat was offered was in any way fair to the Arabs? No, it was simply the best they were going to get. Does this mean they should accept the deal, and validate the Israeli position in the future?

Originally Posted by syr74

The Palestinians and the majority of the arab world want Israel gone...period. Peaceful coexistence was never on the menu, and they only say so in public venues. Sitting with my Professors, and several Palestinians, not to mention arabs, and muslims of every nationality.......the vast majority of whom are very moderate, they all want Israel gone. What they say in a small group is very different from what gets said in the public arena.

You tell me. If you lived every day with the threat of car bombings, suicide bombings, and your history was full of nothing but hatred, deception, and violence from your neighbors. If Iran and other nations made comments like "The day we have a nuclear weapon it will detonate over Tel Aviv". If every day threatened to be a September 11th.....How would America respond? I think we all know the answer to that one. And she'd be right.

I can't blame them for wanting Israel gone. I want Israel gone, or at least very much changed. I am not an anti-semite, but I am most definately anti-zionist. These people are ruthless religious zealots, and willing to use any means at their disposal to achieve their goals. I put them in the same category as Osama Bin Laden and the men holding the torches in Salem.

Israel was founded on terror, and attempts to fight the symptom of their problem, the terrorist attacks, with brutality and oppression. The Israeli people elected Arial Sharon, because he is a monster, and because they know he will brutalize and murder the Palestinians. They deserve everything that is coming to them.

I can only wait and hope for the day when the US is weak enough that they can't protect Israel anymore, and we see sanctions placed on Israel by the world.