I never paid much attention to NT trannies. Not too much to talk about there. But for the turbo cars, every night at the track I see high mileage stock trannies going 12s and occasionaly 11s before the center diff lets go, and thats usually from wheel hop. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I think its unfair to make a blanket statement so brad as "our trannies are crap," or "DSM trannies suck," or whatever. They work quite well for the majority of us.