87 supra vs 90 integra

some guy at my girlfriends work wants to race me and he has a 87 supra... she brags about how fast my car is all the time regardless of how much i tell her that its not that fast.. lol before she told some guy with a 2002 mustang GT that i would own his ass...

who would win.. if the supra would win what would it take for my integra to win (addons).. as is all i have is an intake and Z-rated tires on 15-inch GS-R wheels.

ive seen the supra, its bone stock and in not that great condition and its not the turbo model


**sorry for double post if you see this in the supra forum as well, im trying to get an unbiased opinion by posting in both**

I used to have an 85 supra and those are rated at 160 hp but it had an inline six and a whole lot of torque and a 5 spd. and i raced a 92 integra 5 spd. with intake, headers, and exhaust. The 87 has 200 hp and about the same amount of torque. So if this guy knows how to drive he will beat you. Sorry but those are fast cars.

i dont know if his is a 5spd or an auto.. ill find out

yeah if the dude with the supra knows how to race he'll win.
those nonturbo supras are quick..but who knows..let me know how it goes

i found out that its a 5spd, dont know if he has racing experience though...

what would it take to make mine faster on a very limited budget.. (ghetto mods acceptable.. like hollowing out the cat instead of a high flow aftermarket catalytic convertor). the car has brand new fuel filter, spark plug wires, and spark plugs

i was planning on hollowing out the catalytic convertor (if i can get the dam thing off), taking off the filter for my intake (just for the duration of the race), and taking out the spare tire and all the crap in the trunk.. panels and the jack and stuff and take out the back seat, hollowing out the cat, headers, and exhaust.. would that do it? i hear that you get 1hp gain for every 10 lbs of weight reduction

if thats true, go on a diet :D (don't worry, i'm on mine now. down 10 lbs to 192 woohoo!) hey, i'm not a fat shit no matter what my skinny ass roommate says. damn it, im 6'2". he's like 5'6"..but then again he can bench 270 and he's asian!

you can take out the pulleys for the power steering and a/c. dunno how hard that is but you're sure to gain some parasitic loss back..maybe 15 real hp.

yes.. im so taking the pulleys off, gotta get a manual and find out which ones they are though, theres like 6 under the hood (3 things, but pulleys come in pairs).. ive had a weights training class 4 days a week for an hour since last august so diet wouldnt really help.. only thing i could lose without looking like a freak with sunken eyeballs would be muscle

all that stuff is a good start but I don't think it'll help you that much in the race. When I had my supra and raced that teg I was talking about before I had about 4-5 cars on him by the time we hit 85 or so. The 87 Supra's are even faster....if they're running good. But if the guy doesn't know how to drive and you do then you have a chance of course.

car comparison:

Supra -
200 hp
187 torque
5speed
3500 lbs

Integra -
130 hp
121 torque
5speed
2500 lbs

i have an intake - 5 hp
taking off the pulleys (AC/PS) - 15 hp
hollowing out catalytic convertor - 10hp
doing like 50 lbs of weight reduction - 5hp
exhaust im getting - 5hp
header im getting - 5 hp

theres 45 horsepower (probably wont be that much, but just for the sake of even numbers), then i'll have 175 horsepower and my car weighs 1000 lbs less... think i'd have a chance then?

dood you arent gonna gain any power by reducing weight. you are still gonna have the same motor in there, the only thing taking weight out does is make your power to weight ratio better. and as far as taking pulleys off, you dont needa do all that, just take the belts off. and when you are finished getting beat by the supra, put them back on. my friend has an 87 NA supra, and he hangs with me until VTEC. and i drive a 90 civic hatch with a b16a in it. and i crush LS tegs all the time.

just hope you get a good launch, and try your damnedest to stay ahead, cause once hes moving, his torque is gonna keep pulling that car closer to ya. i would say you gotta nail the launch, since hes RWD and is gonna launch better anyway

what i meant by reducing 50 lbs = 5 hp is that every 10 lbs of reduction is the same effect on your 1/4 mile that 1 horsepower would do..

Originally posted by 90gs


i have an intake - 5 hp
taking off the pulleys (AC/PS) - 15 hp
hollowing out catalytic convertor - 10hp
doing like 50 lbs of weight reduction - 5hp
exhaust im getting - 5hp
header im getting - 5 hp



Sorry duder... But no way are you going to gain 15hp from taking the AC/PC pulleys off. Maybe 2hp at most.

Hollowing out the Cat wont do much, maybe 2-3hp. Header and exhaust will do you the most good, The header will probably gain you around 6-7hp, the Exaust maybe 5 if you're lucky.

Weight, thats different... remember for every 100lbs you loose thats approximately one tenth off of your quarter mile E/T.

You've got a good weight advantage against him, if you can nail the launch and try to make the race as short and sweet as possible then you could possibly win.

But the LS doesnt have great Top end performance in comparison to say the GSR with 'Tec. The Supra's game is down low with that 6'er of his, just hope he doesnt know how to launch it.

Anywho, practice your launch and try it. Let us know how it goes!

Originally posted by RedNeck383


Sorry duder... But no way are you going to gain 15hp from taking the AC/PC pulleys off. Maybe 2hp at most.

Hollowing out the Cat wont do much, maybe 2-3hp. Header and exhaust will do you the most good, The header will probably gain you around 6-7hp, the Exaust maybe 5 if you're lucky.

Weight, thats different... remember for every 100lbs you loose thats approximately one tenth off of your quarter mile E/T.

You've got a good weight advantage against him, if you can nail the launch and try to make the race as short and sweet as possible then you could possibly win.

But the LS doesnt have great Top end performance in comparison to say the GSR with 'Tec. The Supra's game is down low with that 6'er of his, just hope he doesnt know how to launch it.

Anywho, practice your launch and try it. Let us know how it goes!

i think you are wrong. The original guesstimates are much better than yours.

And i *think* in order to take the belts of, you need to loosen the pulleys.

Originally posted by sameintheend01


i think you are wrong. The original guesstimates are much better than yours.

And i *think* in order to take the belts of, you need to loosen the pulleys.

nah, you dont loosen the pulleys at all, you loosen the bracket that holds the alternator, and push the alternator towards the engine, and then for the A/C you loosen the adjuster nuts, same for the PS pump. but besides all that, you still dont have to take the pulleys off for any reason

Just thought i'd throw this in, but a guy a know who bought a 90 integra GS 5 spd. off my friend ran a 16.2 with an intake and full exhaust, and i have to admit this guy is one of the best drivers i have seen. I can't believe i accidentally made a whole new thread saying the same thing when i meant to reply to this one. LMAO

Originally posted by 90gs


i have an intake - 5 hp
taking off the pulleys (AC/PS) - 15 hp
hollowing out catalytic convertor - 10hp
doing like 50 lbs of weight reduction - 5hp
exhaust im getting - 5hp
header im getting - 5 hp

theres 45 horsepower (probably wont be that much, but just for the sake of even numbers), then i'll have 175 horsepower and my car weighs 1000 lbs less... think i'd have a chance then?

hahaha 15 for removing ac/ps if it was that easy to get hp everone would of done that alrdy so i have to agree with matty that your numbers are wrong

Originally posted by sameintheend01


i think you are wrong. The original guesstimates are much better than yours.

And i *think* in order to take the belts of, you need to loosen the pulleys.


Haha, alright... Think what you want. But you're not gaining as much as you may think by doing all that stuff. Also remember there isnt much if any parasitic load on the engine from the Power Steering in a straight line... cause...well its a straight line.

Also, A/C compressors are clutch driven(At least the one in my truck is). Meaning they dont have a load on them till you turn the A/C on... thus it just free wheels untill you hit the A/C button.

And lastly... if it was easy to gain 15hp from removing just those two belts. You'd think everybody would be going around with out A/C and Powersteering. Right? I mean 15hp is a sizeable gain. Even guys with V8s like myself would be traveling around with out the PS and AC. And we've got the heavier cars.. we need the PS.

Honestly, think about it. It doesnt do that much difference. Hell even SCCA, Trans Am and GT race cars have PS. Cause it doesnt use much power, and it cuts down on fatigue of the driver.

Show me a dyno sheet of a car with PS and A/C then that stuff removed. If it shows anywhere near 15hp I'll retract my statements.

Originally posted by RedNeck383



Haha, alright... Think what you want. But you're not gaining as much as you may think by doing all that stuff. Also remember there isnt much if any parasitic load on the engine from the Power Steering in a straight line... cause...well its a straight line.

Also, A/C compressors are clutch driven(At least the one in my truck is). Meaning they dont have a load on them till you turn the A/C on... thus it just free wheels untill you hit the A/C button.

And lastly... if it was easy to gain 15hp from removing just those two belts. You'd think everybody would be going around with out A/C and Powersteering. Right? I mean 15hp is a sizeable gain. Even guys with V8s like myself would be traveling around with out the PS and AC. And we've got the heavier cars.. we need the PS.

Honestly, think about it. It doesnt do that much difference. Hell even SCCA, Trans Am and GT race cars have PS. Cause it doesnt use much power, and it cuts down on fatigue of the driver.

Show me a dyno sheet of a car with PS and A/C then that stuff removed. If it shows anywhere near 15hp I'll retract my statements.

i agree
when i see a dyno sheet and pictures of the process i will retract my agreement with matty's statement

i dunno... 15 hp did sound like a bit much, but thats just what someone earlier in the thread put

those old supras are gay, my friends smoked one in his 4.3 v6 s10 when the s10 was running like shit cause the service engine soon light was on. There is this guy at my school who has one with faded ass paint and thinks its the tightest shit ever as he cuts off my breathing with the black smoke coming out of the exhaust.

Originally posted by Melt
those old supras are gay, my friends smoked one in his 4.3 v6 s10 when the s10 was running like shit cause the service engine soon light was on. There is this guy at my school who has one with faded ass paint and thinks its the tightest shit ever as he cuts off my breathing with the black smoke coming out of the exhaust.

damn melt, a little harsh on the mkIII supras there huh? i assure you they arent gay at all, its usually the driver that makes a car gay, not the car itself (there are exceptions). if you saw my friends project supra, you wouldnt call it gay, and if you saw the video of this 10 second mkIII smoking a 300zx you definitely would think better of the not so pretty older brother of a certain Furious orange car

ok can someone make a list of all the mods i could do and their horsepower gains for less than $300 total (amount of money ill have by the time we race). (include mods like removing the ac and ps belts)

i have an intake and high performance low-profile z-rated tires.. thats it

so you have about 135 HP at the flywheel and your car weighs around 2650lbs. The supra has 200 HP (maybe a little more depending on mods) and weighs about 2900lbs. For 300 bucks I don't think there's anything you can do to beat this guy. Unless you find like a 50 shot of NOS for 300 but I wouldn't recommend that. Is it really that big of a deal if his car is faster ? I wouldn't be embarrased to get beat by a Supra cause those are fast right out of the box.
If you really wanna spend those 300 bucks and make you're car faster I'd ty finding some used headers from someone and maybe an exhaust. It'll be though to find but they're out there. How soon do you plan on racing this guy ?
Also you can advance your timing a couple degrees. That'll do some good at least.

my car weighs 2560 not 2650 (stock specs, thats before weight reduction im planning)
his car weighs 3500 not 2900

he has no mods
his car is in bad condition, at least externally

im getting a free axle-back exhaust from a friend getting a catback, hollowing out the catalytic convertor, taking off the ac/ps belts, ~50 lbs weight reduction

how do you advance your timing.. do you need one of those kits?

loosen the distributor and turn it some, towards the firewall is retarding and towards you is advancing. I think, could be reversed though.


oh, and take out your back seat, passenger seat, spare, jack, and system if you got one, make sure to have just enough gas to race, you could take out your speakers and stereo if you want, depends on how serious you are about weight reduction.

then get some 4-2-1 headers for 100 bucks on ebay, get rid of cat(free),
and you could get some cam gears for 110 as well on ebay, then with shipping on both youd have like 50 bucks left to just tune it up with new wires/rotor/plugs/cap.

you mihgt be able to tune it with the gears by marking off a section of road and drive it a few times, change cam settings, try again, on and on. would be better to tune with a dyno, but you could still get some benefit i think.

but I wouldnt spend too much time removing weight cuz even with I/H/E, cam gears, no cat, and lightweight, you will probably lose. but whatever you do, good luck.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2412401816&category=6770

would his help lots, if I got it, could I rev to 7500 or so safely?

Originally posted by 90gs
my car weighs 2560 not 2650 (stock specs, thats before weight reduction im planning)
his car weighs 3500 not 2900

he has no mods
his car is in bad condition, at least externally

im getting a free axle-back exhaust from a friend getting a catback, hollowing out the catalytic convertor, taking off the ac/ps belts, ~50 lbs weight reduction

how do you advance your timing.. do you need one of those kits?

I was just guessing on those weight specs. i didn't look up any numbers. The supra still has 200 HP and almost that much torque. Most supras that year I see are in bad condition externally but they still haul ass.
I'd give you the same advice as 94tegRS. He knows what he's talking about. Try to find out how his car runs and ask him if he'll give you a ride in it or something just so you can see how fast it is and how good of a driver he is.

ok so i take out the passenger seat, back seat, spare, jack, get headers off ebay, get cam gears off ebay, hollow the cat, advance the timing, and get plug wires (it has new plugs.. not performance ones but they put brand new plugs in it before i bought the car less than 500 miles ago)


does anyone know how to advance the timing, i wanna make sure before i do that distrubuter thing?

oo ill use that NOS octane booster stuff too... says it boosts up to 7 octane points!

... upto 7 octane points.... doesnt mean it'll will gain any.

And Octane doesnt equal horsepower...

i've reasearched that octane shit. Each point is evuivalent to .1 point at the pump. For non-math people that means if you put 89 octane in and the booster, you get 89.7 octane gas. Not worth it. Try to find a gas station or a pump with 100 octane. They around. It is prolly around $5/gal. Put in just enough to race. Maybe 1.5 gals.

From what I hear, it gives u better gas milage and slightly better hp, but it means a better burn. So you can further advance the timing without detonantion.

Originally posted by sameintheend01
i've reasearched that octane shit. Each point is evuivalent to .1 point at the pump. For non-math people that means if you put 89 octane in and the booster, you get 89.7 octane gas. Not worth it. Try to find a gas station or a pump with 100 octane. They around. It is prolly around $5/gal. Put in just enough to race. Maybe 1.5 gals.

From what I hear, it gives u better gas milage and slightly better hp, but it means a better burn. So you can further advance the timing without detonantion.

ive seen some octane boosters that say its equivalent to .1 at the pump but the one i saw was $20 a bottle and it was made by NOS. and it said "5-7" actually, not "up to 7" my bad...

"without detonation" does that mean like your motor exploding?

He means that your cylinders wont have premature detonation before the spark.

With higher octane, you can run more timing which allows your motor to make its full potiential. It doesnt add any new Hp like most people think, what it does is allows you to use up all the motors potiential.

Like with my motor for instance, I've got 10.25:1 compression with Iron heads. Thats a bit much, so i'll have to retard the timing a bit to run a minimum of 91 octane. The car wont make its full power due to not having full timing. If i add Race gas, i'll be able to use full timing and get full power.

hope i cleared that up... haha....

advancing the timing..? is that the same thing as advancing it on adjustable cam gears?

Originally posted by incucivic
damn melt, a little harsh on the mkIII supras there huh?

sorry if I came off like that ... I acutally like the first gen supras when they are taken care of. I was mainly bagging on the gay faded blue one at my school. I know they can be plenty tight, like this one at the heald college meet we had a while ago.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p55f04b27882e83fe05eace9df1c55251/fc40bf27.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p485040cb7cec3d2c934156d47cc25388/fc40bf20.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p513bf09723a4e16f3b648d2f9ee81e5b/fc40bf19.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p463dad10511d3cc5a2b7997b583182e5/fc40bf10.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p4a6293d7c8d3e37dfc09ef85d5affa71/fc40bef7.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p94bba3676e53502cb633808de491f757/fc40beea.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p7a1c11fe092c2e758d22d594d68df35f/fc40bee3.jpg

Car took first place overall, its competiton was a 97 Prelude S, 99 Civic CX hatch, 97 GSR 4 door with JDM front end, A turboed VW bug, and an '02 RSX
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p37ed38d607dbc8c92c6ca4d97f13b8d6/fc40bede.jpg