B16A Driving Impressions

I finally took my car (91 Civic Si) out on a 5 minute run (don't have it registered yet). It has new tokico blue struts, new ST sway bars, new ES hyper bushings, new brakes, hmotors B16A w/ hasport mount kit, $35 intake, stock Si 'peashooter' exhaust, S1 5spd transmission and sh!tty no-name tires on stock steelies (left the hubcaps on for that 'stock' look).

Engine:
-- 1st gear: I do a normal takeoff out of the driveway. Hmmm, this car has no torque. Wind it out to 4.5Krpm.

-- 2nd: wind it out to 7K rpm. VTEC activation makes the engine VERY loud. Still not much torque but the car is actually going fast. I'm still too much of a pansy to take it to 7600rpm.

-- 3rd: too fast to wind out on windy backroads. Also a longish gear. You don't want to shift into this too early from 2nd.

I let my friend/copilot drive it back home. He hit 65mph going around a tight turn (I almost sh!t my pants). He said it was 'fast', liked the VTEC sound.

Hasport motormounts transfer more NVH into the cabin than some people might like. Reminds me of early 80s VW Rabbit w/ worn motor mounts.

Transmission:
-- I like the gearing of the transmission. Can't wait to see what its like as a daily driver.

Suspension:
-- Very tight. It feels like there is no give in it. We hit a tiny pothole and it sounded/felt like we hit a crater! The stock ride height of the Civic is low; I would not want to 'slam' this car.

Overall:
I'm going to post again when I've actually spent a few days behind the wheel, but I think hitting VTEC is going to become addictive! I feel like a nut when I wind a car out like that. Hope it doesn't draw any unwanted attention from law enforcement.

Problems:
The spark plug holes filled up with oil (I guess I didn't torque down the valve cover enough?); I seriously need a performance exhaust. Suggestions? #1 requirement: MUST BE QUIET!

Todd
91 Civic Si B16a

Man, you gotta get used to shifting at 8k. I love just dropping the tach needle. It seems pretty intense I realize, but the more you get used to it the more you'll love it.

Originally posted by sciamop
I seriously need a performance exhaust. Suggestions? #1 requirement: MUST BE QUIET!

todd, glad to hear you finally got the car runnin, get used to taking it up to 8 grand, it will become addicitive

as for a quiet exhaust, look into the apexi world series...

you have a SI tranny hooked up to that b16?? i didnt think you could swap d to b series parts??

Originally posted by 1990civic
you have a SI tranny hooked up to that b16?? i didnt think you could swap d to b series parts??

S1 trans-tight geared b series trans.:)

Nice! I know its not torquey but its still pretty damn quick! I guess seth was talkin shit:rolleyes:

If you dont think its torqey then you either missed something on the install, or your comparing it with an 8 or 6, which you simply cant do.

Iv driven a LOT of 4cyl cars, and the only one Iv ever driven that came close to the torque of the B16a was a Super Charged 4age in an MR2.
(Iv driven 2.0+L fours with more peak torque, but its only ever been useable accross a very small rev range)

The B16a dosnt have a lot of peak torque, but for such a small high revving engine it has an impressivly flat torque curve.
I used to able to pull from 40kph to 180kph in 5th gear, thats from below 1,000rpm with out any hesitation. It was just one long smooth pull. ;)
Peak torque actualy occurs at about 3,000rpm, then again at 7,200rpm with peak power coming in at 7,800 and you need to hit 8,000 before shifting to keep it above 5,000rpm when you want to drive "quickly".

Once you get used to it you will have no trouble trolling around at 1,500-3,000rpm in traffic. Wind it up to 4-5,000rpm when you need to jump in somewhere, or beat someone from the lights, then open it up and goto 8,200 when you get a clear piece of road. :)

Just remember:
Below 5,000rpm for daily driving, and saving gas.
Above 5,000rpm for fast driving (cough*racing*cough)

well said
very well said:D

i drove my friends 92 sedan b16a2, man as soon as i took it up to 8k and tapped rev limiter, i just completely fell in love with it. as soon as i can afford it, im taking my b18a out and putting in a b16a. i love the sound of high revving motors

If you dont think its torqey then you either missed something on the install, or your comparing it with an 8 or 6, which you simply cant do.

Yeah, my other car is a stock 89 Supra Turbo (3.0 I-6: 232hp/254lbs) power comes on hard (& smooth) btwn 3000-4500 rpms; no real top end though... poops out at ~5800rpm.

I really like that the B is *engineered* to be beat on; If I drove the Supra like that, it would probably blow the head gasket in ~60 seconds.

Like I said, I'll make more observations after I've driven it for a couple of days...

Julian: thanks for the tip on the exhaust. I had a Blitz Nur Spec on the Supra and I hated it (way too loud; went back to stock). I hear that the GReddy SP is good too; unfortunately it has the 'megaphone' tailpipe.

Todd
91 Si B16a

Just swap a B16 head on your B18.

Originally posted by sciamop
unfortunately it has the 'megaphone' tailpipe.


you can also try the hks sport exhuast....looks almost like stock

irvin (EFLSVTEC) used to have it on his car
http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/733049fd1d3e60.jpg

Originally posted by civickiller
as soon as i can afford it, im taking my b18a out and putting in a b16a. i love the sound of high revving motors

you'd be spending a lot of money to have the end result of a slower car. do not take out the b18(unless its all fucked up)to put in a b16. you will go slower trust me. if anything slap on the b16 head onto the ls block, but dont remove the whole ls to go b16. you will regret trust me. a stock ls would out run a stock b16 in the same type of car.

I think a stock LS would a b16 off the line, but once you got going, the sheer high rpm rippage of the b16 would take the b18 since it only revs to like 6500

not true the ls pretty much stronger than the b16 would out run it almost every time. i've seen it done many times. two friends of mine with hatches ls and b16 and ls comes out on top every time. from a stop and go. to downshifting on freeways the ls aways pulls. i've also seen ls' beat b16's out at the street races. ls is a better engine due to its higher torque than the b16.

"horsepower sells, but torque wins races"

well hte reason why i would be swapping in a b16 is so i could play around with it while im building my ls up for a turbo. and after talking ot some friends about that ls motor i bought, one of them said it smokes bad. so yeah that sucks, and since i dont really got no money now, nothing i can do

Originally posted by Redline_civic91
a stock ls would out run a stock b16 in the same type of car.

:confused: Do you even have any idea what you're talking about?

The B16A has a better tranny, and 30 more HP than a B18A.. My car destroyes modded LS tegs.

The integra LS has something like 14 more lbs-ft of torque than the B16, but the B16 makes 20-30 more HP than any stock LS engine. If you really truly think an LS would be faster than a B16 in the same car, you're dreaming. I don't know if you've ever been on the old CRX resource board, but there was a guy on there named Stormin' Matt or something like that and he had both an LS and B16 powered CRXs. He would always tell that the B16 was faster. It makes more power.

Having 15lbs-ft of PEAK torque more than a B16, but 20-30 less HP is not going to help an LS beat a B16.

damn it Siz u TELL HIM! I agree with Siz man b16 will smoke ls motor anyday. :D

the LS will whip the b16 for about teh first 100 feet and then its all VTEC baby...



vrooooooooooBAAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

^vtec

Originally posted by 91civicDXdude
the LS will whip the b16 for about teh first 100 feet and then its all VTEC baby...



vrooooooooooBAAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

^vtec

LOL dude I have to admit that that is one of the funnys remakes of vtec that I have ever seen :licker:

Originally posted by 91civicDXdude
vrooooooooooBAAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

^vtec
Well captured :cool: I think redline's been smokin some good shit ;)

Is it just me, or can you only actually feel vtec kick in during 1st and 2nd gear? Everyother gear, you just hear vtec, but you don't feel it. That's been my experience in the first week I've had my b16.

Originally posted by Marc-OS
Is it just me, or can you only actually feel vtec kick in during 1st and 2nd gear? Everyother gear, you just hear vtec, but you don't feel it. That's been my experience in the first week I've had my b16.

Its probably u haha. You can hear it more on 2nd gear actually. Maybe your low on oil? Check your oil level. Cause if ur low on oil ur v-tec wouldn't kick in hard.

I just love the sound of vtec... Whenever I am in the car with my girl rippin it up on the freeway, I always tell her "Listen Listen... here it comes".... and to quote 91civicDXdude
"vrooooooooooBAAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH":D :D
it sounds so mean with the type r cams...
i am so happy i went with the b16a... a lil torqueless as i found out after racing my friends 13.5 sec gsr-rex today but nevertheless, theres always turbo :D :D

Originally posted by Marc-OS
Is it just me, or can you only actually feel vtec kick in during 1st and 2nd gear?

1st gear, from like a 2500rpm roll to just mash it, I think VTEC comes on nuts. You just can't not love it. :)

Originally posted by SiZ


:confused: Do you even have any idea what you're talking about?

The B16A has a better tranny, and 30 more HP than a B18A.. My car destroyes modded LS tegs.

The integra LS has something like 14 more lbs-ft of torque than the B16, but the B16 makes 20-30 more HP than any stock LS engine. If you really truly think an LS would be faster than a B16 in the same car, you're dreaming. I don't know if you've ever been on the old CRX resource board, but there was a guy on there named Stormin' Matt or something like that and he had both an LS and B16 powered CRXs. He would always tell that the B16 was faster. It makes more power.

Having 15lbs-ft of PEAK torque more than a B16, but 20-30 less HP is not going to help an LS beat a B16.

dude now im starting to think some of you guys dont really know what your talking about. of course you beat modded ls tegs your lighter than them. you should beat them easy. you guys think vtec is the savior of everything when unless you have a b20, h22, or lsvtec you cant really even feel it. yes you can hear it of course but when it turns on do its slam you back againts the seat, lol. no. i think your just going by whats on paper and what you hear. 20 more horespower:rolleyes: thats almost as much torque as its missing out on comparred to an ls. trust me i've seen these engines battle alot 2 of my friends have these engines in the same car. my mechanic agrees, and so do a lot of other people. you cant go by what you hear.

and when it comes to racing or building an engine, everyone i know loves hp but every single one of them would perfer torque over horespower. alot of people build racing engines of sheer torque only, torque outweighs horsepower all day everyday. but if you've never driven one of these torquee engines than i guess you wouldn't know what im talking bout.

Ive ridden in both a modded 94 GSR (b18c1) and irvins 88DX hatch with LS/Vtec and i must say, while you feel the vtec kick in in the teg, in the ls/vtec hatch I was pinned in the back of my seat almost the entire time!

Ugh. Why do you even bother? There's just no fucking way.

Okay, let me make it bold so you can be sure to focus on this when you're reading. Its important because I'm thinking that you're probably a little slow. Read it twice if you have to.

The B16A makes 20-30 MORE HP than any LS motor. The LS motor makes 14 more lb-ft than a B16.

You think 14 lbs of torque makes the LS a superior motor to the B16? I doubt it. Even if the person adresses the problem of the LS transmission being geared really long and they maybe put a B16 tranmisssion on it.. Then if they're shifting the LS at redline, the revs won't even be dropping down to the 4200rpm that the LS makes its peak torque at. Shifting at 8k on your B16 however will keep you right in that rev range.. Since peak 111 lbs-ft comes in at 7,000rpm and peak HP is made at 7,600. Love VTEC. :)

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

whatever you say dude

b16 top power is made at 7600 rpms you say. what good is it if you have to shift at 8 and you use that top power for only 1/2 a second. the ls torque will pull hard from start of gear to shifting. not like the torque-less b16 you have to wait till vtec kicks in to actually start pullying, and when it kicks its almost time to shift, vtec in all motors in usually best in 3rd gear. thats probley the best gear, till then you have a torque-less engine, by the time you get to third, its too late ls is up already, and its gonna be hard to catch up. yes even with vtec.



The B16A makes 20-30 MORE HP than any LS motor. The LS motor makes 14 more lb-ft than a B16.

like i said befor you cant compare horspower to torque. torque outweighs horsepower all day. torque is what throws you back in your seat and pulls your car. horespower is just a dollar sign thats helps businesses sell cars to people like you. it does not outwheigh torque.

but what ever floats your boat faster fruit cakes. i know you have a b16 and your all in love with it. but its not the faster than an ls. i would love to see you race an ls hatch just like yours so you can see for your self.

Originally posted by Redline_civic91
like i said befor you cant compare horspower to torque. torque outweighs horsepower all day.

Man, you are a retard. HP IS TORQUE. :rolleyes:

Get a clue.

to be more specific, horsepower is a product of torque and rpm.

sorry redline but the guys that drive b16 goin against ls prolly can't drive. I've seen them go at it at the track and ls lose.

like i said befor you cant compare horspower to torque. torque outweighs horsepower all day. torque is what throws you back in your seat and pulls your car. horespower is just a dollar sign thats helps businesses sell cars to people like you. it does not outwheigh torque.

You understand that you are talking about a sub-2.0L NA FOUR CYLINDER engine (LS). If we were all gooey about torque we'd be driving 1971 Chevelles w/ 454cid V8s; if you want a real opinion on your torquey little LS, go brag to a Corvette forum... I'd love to see some of their responses... LOL!

Reality Check: these engines (B18/B16) are almost identical so quit 'hating'.

Todd
89 Supra Turbo (254lbs o' torque)
91 Civic Si w/ B16 (111lbs o' tire melting torque)

i hope you were being sarcastic when you said hp is torque. cause thats wrong, very wrong.

i hope you were being sarcastic when you said hp is torque. cause thats wrong, very wrong.

lay off the crack:smoka:

Originally posted by sciamop
I finally took my car (91 Civic Si) out on a 5 minute run (don't have it registered yet). It has new tokico blue struts, new ST sway bars, new ES hyper bushings, new brakes, hmotors B16A w/ hasport mount kit, $35 intake, stock Si 'peashooter' exhaust, S1 5spd transmission and sh!tty no-name tires on stock steelies (left the hubcaps on for that 'stock' look).

Engine:
-- 1st gear: I do a normal takeoff out of the driveway. Hmmm, this car has no torque. Wind it out to 4.5Krpm.

-- 2nd: wind it out to 7K rpm. VTEC activation makes the engine VERY loud. Still not much torque but the car is actually going fast. I'm still too much of a pansy to take it to 7600rpm.

-- 3rd: too fast to wind out on windy backroads. Also a longish gear. You don't want to shift into this too early from 2nd.

I let my friend/copilot drive it back home. He hit 65mph going around a tight turn (I almost sh!t my pants). He said it was 'fast', liked the VTEC sound.

Hasport motormounts transfer more NVH into the cabin than some people might like. Reminds me of early 80s VW Rabbit w/ worn motor mounts.

Transmission:
-- I like the gearing of the transmission. Can't wait to see what its like as a daily driver.

Suspension:
-- Very tight. It feels like there is no give in it. We hit a tiny pothole and it sounded/felt like we hit a crater! The stock ride height of the Civic is low; I would not want to 'slam' this car.

Overall:
I'm going to post again when I've actually spent a few days behind the wheel, but I think hitting VTEC is going to become addictive! I feel like a nut when I wind a car out like that. Hope it doesn't draw any unwanted attention from law enforcement.

Problems:
The spark plug holes filled up with oil (I guess I didn't torque down the valve cover enough?); I seriously need a performance exhaust. Suggestions? #1 requirement: MUST BE QUIET!

Todd
91 Civic Si B16a
I shift my B16 at 8500, that's where all the torque and power is, it also stays in VTEC when I shift up there as well. You just have to remember that the B16 is a TOP-END motor. doesn't have much off the line.

I sold the Supra yesterday. I'll be registering/insuring the B16 Si on Monday. Due to the feedback I got from my original post, I CAN'T WAIT TO DRIVE THE LIVING SH!T OUT OF THIS CAR! I'll repost a daily driver perspective of the car...

Do any of you have experience w/ sport bikes? I used to have a Honda CBR600F2 that revved to over 13000RPM: Highly recommended!

Todd
91 Si B16a
91 STD (4 sale: $500)

who eveer brought up a corvett, chevell, and supra is a complete idiot. who the fuck is talking about those cars those are v8. were comparing 2 engines here, has nothing to do with those fucken cars you mentioned. but whatever you say dude guy at the track yesterday ran a 14.65 in a ls hatch stock he ran right in front of me i was talking to him about this and we just laughed about it. but whatever dude b16 is fastes:rolleyes: that make you happy.

"horsepower is torque":bloated: what an idiot:o

horsepower is a product of torque multiplied by rpm. If you think otherwise, you are straight up wrong.

Horsepower is defined as work done over time. The exact definition of one horsepower is 33,000 lb.ft./minute. Put another way, if you were to lift 33,000 pounds one foot over a period of one minute, you would have expended one horsepower.

"one horsepower is 33,000 lb.ft/minute. lb/ft is used to measure torque.


HP = (rpm × Torque) ÷ 5252

By using this formula you can see that HP and Torque curves will always cross at 5252 rpm. To help put horsepower into perspective, imagine two engine that both make 300 ft. lbs. of torque One engine makes it at 3000 rpm and the other makes it at 6000 rpm. Which one makes more power? The one revving at 6000, because the same amount of torque is being used twice as fast. Gearing the engine down to the the same 3000 rpm will double the torque at the final drive making it 600 ft. lbs. If both engines had the same final drive, they would be able to do the exact same amount of work (300 ft. lbs. worth), but the 6000 rpm engine will do it in 1/2 the time.


Many engine builders will say that torque is what wins races and too much emphasis is put on horsepower. It is true that torque is what actually pushes the car, but torque and horsepower are directly related, you can't have one without the other. Torque does win races, but you need horsepower to put it to use, so saying torque is more important than horsepower is really a contradiction. If you build the horsepower, the torque will be there through gearing. The engine with the most average hp for the rpm range used will have more average power, period.

:flipa: :finger: :flipa: :finger: :flipa: :finger:

:flipa:copy and past :flipa:

notice that i formatted it in QUOTE :rolleyes:

"horsepower is torque" what an idiot

yes, what an idiot :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Redline_civic91
who eveer brought up a corvett, chevell, and supra is a complete idiot. who the fuck is talking about those cars those are v8. were comparing 2 engines here, has nothing to do with those fucken cars you mentioned. but whatever you say dude guy at the track yesterday ran a 14.65 in a ls hatch stock he ran right in front of me i was talking to him about this and we just laughed about it. but whatever dude b16 is fastes:rolleyes: that make you happy.

"horsepower is torque":bloated: what an idiot:o



no, a complete idiot says HEADERS for a 4-cylinder.....and if you dont know what i am talkin about....check your sig....asshole :rolleyes:

And a supra is not a v8 ...its an inline 6;)

Just walk away from this knowing that you're dumb. We're all willing to drop it.

Unless of course you can tell me how torque "outweighs horsepower all day"... :rolleyes:

Theres a simple way to end this:

91civicDXdude is right.

Redline whatever your name is is wrong.



Let it go and that and leave it be.



sciamop I hope you enjoy driving your B16a as much as I did driving mine, its a truely beutiful engine.
I think the best compliment I got was when the owner of a Lotus Elan race car powered by a 240+hp Ford BDA (1600 twincam race engine from the 70s) said he would rather have a worked B16a instead after taking my car for a drive.

Im afraid that due to some name calling and other BS from the niave irational and ignorant you'll have to start a new thread for your daily driving impressions.
Probobly a good idea anyway as this has got dragged a little OT. :)