O Dragon, where art thou?

:2cents:So first off, these are my personal thoughts, and I do not mean any offense to anyone, nor do I believe my thoughts are the only choice. Everyone has their own opinion, and it does not have to be the same as mine. That said....

O Dragon, where are thou. For those wondering who Dragon are, some background. I started modeling some years ago (not that many) with my first model being a Tamiya KV-1 tank (kind of a automobile with a great solution for Meter-Maids). Excellent kit (its a Tamiya), no flash, very well engineered. After a while a company called Dragon Modeling started to bring out a number of kits that were; well superb. Great models and technically on par, or dare I say ahead of Tamiya from an engineering standpoint. And when they decided on a subject, they did every version. It would be like them starting with the Plymouth Barracuda and bringing out every year/version combo. So why do I mention this.

I decided to buy the Revel and Tamiya Enzo's and do them at the same time. The Tamiya is well engineered, little if no flash, good instructions. The Revel model, is none of these, and the dimensions are too small. But what is most idiotic part is how this model goes together. You would think that every part was designed in secret and then they put it in a box. It goes together like a house of cards. Move one part, the whole structure falls apart. Now, yes it was cheeper, but my god, I have almost thrown it though the wall twice, and I am only on step 4!
If, and its a big if, Dragon enters the auto market, Revel are in deep (fill in your own word). How Dragon does this, at the prices they charge is amazing. If only they would break out of their mold and do autos. Maybe if they run out of military vehicles to do (not long now) they we will be in for a treat.

I would love to hear other comments from more experienced modelers on the state of the quality of the models today. Its not like these models are free, we are paying for these.

Dragon is Trumpeter in the US market. IIRC
So they do make cars. Kind of a mixed bag, lots of detail but some small issues too. A little like the Hasegawa car kits.
I do agree with the Tamiya kits vs others for any given subject. I will spend almost three times the price for a Tamiya kit simply because i know the kit will fit together and the detail will be very good, and well, because i will enjoy building the sucker.

Isn't dragon the brand that made/repackaged a bunch of 1/24 BMW's? If that's true, I had a box of BMW 316 compact and I personally think it could use some improvements.

Dragon did release its own BMWs and GT racer kits. Some of them were repackaged by Hasegawa for the Japanese market (which Hasegawa just lost the distribution rights this spring), and maybe by Revell Germany for the European market (but I don't remember well). Some of those kits end up on eBay, so it's confusing as to who originally tooled them, but my understanding is that those are Dragon's own kits.

Dragon and Trumpeter are two different companies, although they might be handled by a common distributor in some parts of the world.

I was not aware of anything from Dragon in the past, but on the military side of the pond, in the last few years we have seen some extremely impressive kits using their new 'slide molding' technique. Some of their older kits are definitely inferior to their new stuff, but still are far ahead of Revel's stuff.

I have heard good things out of the Ferrari California from Revel, but what I feel makes Tamiya worth the money are the little things. The instructions, the layout the construction. You can tell someone has thought through the build process and asked 'does this make sense?' Dragon has that same attention to the little things. So if anyone from Dragon ever reads this, take your slide moulding over to cars, and give us some treats. Given the many people will pay over $50 for a kit, there is definitely a market for good kits.

Actually most car kit companies would be up excrement creek if Dragon started to do proper car kits with the same verve as their tank kits. Imagine buying a kit of Tamiya quality, except that it actually includes the needed photoetch parts and some turned aluminum bits and does not cost $65 freeking dollars...and they might actually include engines. I remember the first Dragon kit I bought years ago...the 1/35 Initial Tiger. I paid $35 for it...got home, opened it up and thought to myself "Hmmm...it appears I have just made off like a bandit." It was packed with a ton of aftermarket parts. On the other hand, in the few kits Tamiya puts out that they decide to include a small fret of photoetch parts...they jack the price up to $50-60...or just make $50-60 kits that require the photoetch set to complete...and make you buy them seperately and charge $15-20 extra for them. Not photoetch that is used for more refined, or extra, detail, no no no...photoetch you NEED to finish the kit (the Le Clerc tank, or some of their latest $60 car kitscome to mind). Heck, I am certain that if Dragon starts making car kits (assuming they don't go nuts and decide to half ass it), all things that open on the real car will open on the kit, include an engine, photetch parts, maybe some wires for the brake lines and engine, some turned aluminum bits and cost less (or the same with licensing fees) than a Tamiya kit. That would be awesome.


:grinyes:

Dragon did release its own BMWs and GT racer kits. Some of them were repackaged by Hasegawa for the Japanese market (which Hasegawa just lost the distribution rights this spring), and maybe by Revell Germany for the European market (but I don't remember well). Some of those kits end up on eBay, so it's confusing as to who originally tooled them, but my understanding is that those are Dragon's own kits.

Dragon and Trumpeter are two different companies, although they might be handled by a common distributor in some parts of the world.

How does one lose the distribution rights for a subject? Do copyright prices drop as the subject gets older? Is the right only effective for a certain amount of time? If that's the case, doesn't that mean a lot of the old kits (Tamiya AE92, mugen civic, Grand cherokee, etc, Hasegawa ferio)will never be reissued again?

I should have worded better. Hasegawa lost the rights to sell all Dragon products in the Japanese market as of Jan 31.

I didn't think Dragon kits were all that great.

They were very simplified and the fitment was not very tight.

The best thing I can say about those kits is they made some cars in 1/24 that no one else did.

The pre-painted kits just created more work for the experienced modeler also.

Dragon has already made car kits and they left a lot to be desired. They were simple curbsides, nothing at all like Tamiya kits, including curbsides. They made a big fat deal about their "special" BMW emblems in the kits. That didn't fix the weird pre-assembled & prepainted nature of the kits, or the funky ride height or the loose-fitting glass. The only saving grace is they were subjects not kitted by anyone else. Revell AG reboxed a few Dragon kits for awhile. I have no idea about Hasegawa-boxed Dragon kits.

Dragon does well with military models. They should stick to what they're really good at, especially after experiencing building one of their car kits. A statement that works equally well for most model manufacturers.

Revell's Enzo is an excellent kit if you compare the value vs. the Tamiya kit. The Tamiya kit should be better for 3-5 times the Revell price. I've seen excellent built Revell Enzo kits, and their body parts fit...I don't think I've ever seen a built Tamiya Enzo or FXX that the engine cover would actually fit in the closed position. That's the curse of the Tamiya Enzo/FXX kits; they just don't look right when the engine cover and doors are closed, because the parts fit isn't good that way. Tamiya kits are nice, but they are seriously overpriced, especially through US channels. Tamiya kits are nice for inexperienced builders, but they also spoil the inexperienced when a perfectly good kit like the Revell Enzo is frowned upon because it's not a "shake 'n bake" experience like you get with the Tamiya kit. Build a few more kits, get more comfortable with the hobby, and you'll find that Revell kits are quite good for their corner of the market. Tamiya makes it easy for you to look like you have game. By comparison Revell kits require that you have a bit of game going into the project if you want similar end results.

If Dragon hasn't bothered with high-tech car kits by now, they're not going to suddenly change. The market is not growing. Every company that's come along and tried to do new high-content, high-detail kits has pretty much failed. Trumpeter has yet to prove they can do a decent car kit without a lot of excuses for inaccuracies. Revell/Monogram attempted "Pro Modeler" kits before with more content, better instructions, research material, and photoetch parts, for about 30-50% more $ than their standard kits. Modelers didn't buy them...the experiment failed. Your only hope now is for the aftermarket to take up the slack by offering detail sets for mass-marketed plastic kits. The system works. Those wanting a decent model that won't take years to finish are satisfied by what's in the box, and those who want photoetch, machined parts and carbon fiber making their models more realistic are also catered to.

Trumpeter. I'm working on their '60 Pontiac Bonneville kit. Sure it has a high parts count but it's gonna seriously be a test of my abilities. I'm confident that I can do it a bit of justice but it is a far cry from the Revell '72 Cutlass 4-4-2 kit; so far it's a builder's dream. If I dig the subject matter, I'll build it no matter who makes it because I know I can make it look at least halfway decent. Just my two cents. :)
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Very interesting on how we have such a wide range of views. Most of the experience with Dragon on the auto side seems to be poor, and from what I have been told they did have issues in the past. One of the upsides, as Asmenoth stated, is that you now get a lot of stuff in the box. Now thats not to say that there are not better aftermarket add-ons even for the Tamiya models. My wife got me the SMS FXX kit for the Christmas :smile: and I look at it and try not to drool over it. I guess the 'poorer' kits do allow for a thriving aftermarket industry, but for me modeling is fun, so when a kit is so frustrating in its design that I want to kill it, its no longer fun. On the military side Dragons kits are fun to put together and you can build a really nice kit, which does not mean you cannot detail it to the max. We need someone to come along and shake this up and give some of these companies a run for their money. In the end we win. So if anyone knows the head of Dragon Models, give him a nudge :smile:

You do make a good point; I sort of regret selling my two Dragon BMW kits a few years back as they were unique subject matter.
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Dragon does well with military models. They should stick to what they're really good at, especially after experiencing building one of their car kits. A statement that works equally well for most model manufacturers.
The early Dragon military kits were pretty bad too; now they are among the best.

I think Dragon can make a decent car kit if they want to. The problem is the car modelling market is too small compared to the military market for them to bother at all. Not to mention all the licensing issues that simply don't exist in producing tank kits.

I don't know if this is off topic and I said it in a different thread but Model Factory Hiro produces kits with the type of quality and uniqueness that we are refering to Dragon having and their kits are quite pricey but they are still thriving. Also in a video of the president showing the new factory he said one of the things he would like to do is produce some plastic kits which I think would be very successful.

"Every company that's come along and tried to do new high-content, high-detail kits has pretty much failed." You're right about most....but not every, companies just need to know what cars are in demand

So wait...
Please excuse me if I got this wrong but are you saying that what you really want is for someone to produce Tamiya quality kits that are full detailed (as they did during the Enzo, 360, Carrera GT era) and include PE parts in the box but cheaper than what is already available?

Not an entirely a new concept as essentially, you're just griping that Tamiya kits are too expensive and other cheaper kits aren't as good (out of the box).

Sort of. If someone was to produce a car kit with Tamiya quality, features from the old days (engine, opening doors and such), photo etch details, and maybe wiring and the occasional resin detail part...I would pay the same as a current Tamiya kit for all that, although as expensive as some of the new kits are...I am sure they can go cheaper.

rx7king: Plastic Model Factory Hiro, or even Studio 27, kits would be awesome and fit into the above description and probably run half the price (if they do full production runs and not limited items).

petesy: Actually, there are licensing issues with military kits as well. Though, they get around them. The tires on most WWII German tanks are made by Continental, Dragon prints them as ContinentaU (trim the bit off the U to make it correct). No Hummvee kit has the correct tires, thank you GoodYear. In some cases the names of the vehicles are left off the box and the kit. Tamiya's new Opel Blitz truck says 4x2 German Truck on the box and the iconic Opel Blitz logo is blank on the front grill. Aftermarket companies, of course, come to the rescue with detail kits and resin parts and wheels to correct this.


:biggrin::biggrin:

Revell/Monogram attempted "Pro Modeler" kits before with more content, better instructions, research material, and photoetch parts, for about 30-50% more $ than their standard kits. Modelers didn't buy them...the experiment failed.

Bob what kits were these?


I myself would love to see some of dragon bmws rereleased too along with the civic sedan. It probably won't happen though. The newer ferrari kits by revell aren't bad at all, tight fit but for the price you can't go wrong. We will see when the new audi/benz dtm, and new benz comes out from revell how good they are. I personally can't wait for them.

As for dragon they probably will never release any new kits. No matter what company makes a kit, its up to the modeler to build it properly. Its our J.O.B.

Bob what kits were these?
The ones I can remember are 40 Ford, 48 Ford, 58 Corvette and 69 Charger Daytona.

Interesting...it seams that the new Aston Martin from Tamiya is going to come with the photo etch...and not cost all that much.

http://www.hlj.com/product/tam24316

:iceslolan

it's worth pointing out that the (previously) apparent sudden hike in cost of tamiya kits was exaggerated by a period of strong dollar against yen followed by sudden weakening of the dollar against a backdrop of a fuel price rally.