moderators.

This is not to say anything about moderators but rather to ask a question, it seems that when somebody suggests a moderator for a forum or asks to become a moderator for a forum, that thread becomes closed...
Why does this happen? I read over the forum guidelines and can't find "do not suggest moderators for forums which don't have them" or "Never suggest yourself to be a moderator, doing this will lead to termination of your thread." Last time I checked these sort of messages didn't have any X-rated GIFs in them...

Here's an interesting excerpt from the AF guidelines:

"RESPECT IS THE KEY
The Automotive Forums .com (AF) is a place where it's okay to be yourself -- be that harried, jovial, silly or sad -- as long as you always act with respect towards your fellow AFers. We promise that you won't have to leave your personality at the door. We promise to bring passion to our work and to our community and to act with appreciation for our members. We will listen willingly to your suggestions and complaints, and try to incorporate your ideas in everything we do."

The last part of this paragraph is very interesting: "We will listen willingly to your suggestions and complaints, and try to incorporate your ideas in everything we do"

Does listening willingly to suggestions mean closing the thread:confused:

I've pasted the forum guidlines below, maybe somebody with a better understanding of this guide can point out what was wrong with these these threads.


"Registration to this Community is free! However, we do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please press the Agree button at the end of the page.
Note: By registering on Automotive Forums .com you declare that you are over the age of 13. We do not allow members under the age of 13 to join this community. Anyone found violating this rule will lose their membership and their account will be frozen.

Although the administrators and moderators of the Automotive Forums .com will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and Automotive Forums .com will NOT be held responsible for the content of any message.

COMMUNITY GUIDELINES
This is a community of automotive enthusiasts. Watch your P's and Q's when you write and use emotion icons if you think someone might take something you say offensively.

RESPECT IS THE KEY
The Automotive Forums .com (AF) is a place where it's okay to be yourself -- be that harried, jovial, silly or sad -- as long as you always act with respect towards your fellow AFers. We promise that you won't have to leave your personality at the door. We promise to bring passion to our work and to our community and to act with appreciation for our members. We will listen willingly to your suggestions and complaints, and try to incorporate your ideas in everything we do.

Pretend you run these forums, ok so in essence you do. Before you hit the submit button think if you would allow that post on your site or on your forums. Only you can prevent Spam and cross posting. AF Staff are here to help you so if you have a problem e-mail it or post your request in the forums. We have many members that have knowledge in various areas. They are all willing to help you at the drop of a hat.

If you've been caught or accused of a wrongdoing don't get irrational. Most of the time we revoke privileges as a safety measure not as a personal vendetta and we are usually just as quick to reinstate them, as we were to revoke them. Just e-mail us and ask what happened. If you know what happened write your side of the story and tell us why you think it was ok or why you know it was wrong.

Please keep these Guidelines in mind:
WELCOME NEWCOMERS
When newcomers arrive, welcome them to our growing community. Many of our community's "elders" (regardless of age) are a wealth of knowledge and have much to share. Help new members learn about how to find information and resources, save time, and how to get involved in the community.

DON'T ATTACK EACH OTHER
Don't attack others. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully ... without insult and personal attack.

KEEP PERSONAL INFORMATION PERSONAL
Think before you post or speak: Do you really want to put your address or telephone number on a public discussion forum or to share it during a live chat? We encourage you to keep personal information personal.

Similarly, do not ask for personal information from others. Discussion forum posts that request members to submit personal information to another party will be removed. Information that should be considered personal includes but is not limited to your home phone number, name, age. If you must give this out for any reason, please do so privately

KEEP YOUR POSTS CLEAN
There may be places where explicit, obscene or vulgar language, graphics or behavior is appropriate however Automotive Forums .com is not one of them. Discussion forum posts that contain explicit, obscene or vulgar language will be removed. Similarly, discussion forum posts that solicit or offer explicit or X-rated GIFs, JPEGs or similar content files will be deleted without notice!

BE COURTEOUS: AVOID DUPLICATE POSTS
Do not post the same discussion more than once on a discussion forum or on many forums. Duplicate discussions can be frustrating for other members, especially for those whose time and energy is limited. Weeding through the same discussion in multiple locations can be not only frustrating, but down right annoying. Duplicate discussions will be deleted. Reposting the same message repeatedly can be interpreted as SPAM and could result in the loss of your membership.

ADVERTISING
Advertising is prohibited on the forums. Your membership will be revoked at first such offense.

SIGNATURES
Each members has the ability to display a signature. Please keep your signtature clean, just like the posts.

TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP
Upon the submittal of each post on Automotive Forums .com you give Automotive Forums .com and/or its partners the permission to reproduce any part of your post in any form, for any purpose, and at any time.

WE RESERVE THE RIGHT
Automotive Forums .com reserves the right to remove a post which does not relate to the topic being discussed in the forum. In addition, AutomotiveForums.com reserves the right to organize discussion forums in order to best serve the majority of our members. For example, narrow-interest or minimal activity topics may, at AF's discretion, be relocated to a more appropriate discussion forum, or deleted entirely.

Automotive Forums .com also reserves the right to prohibit or delete discussions that are thought to violate applicable law or that may be harmful to other members, the sites that comprise Automotive Forums .com, or the rights of Automotive Forums .com or others. That said, Automotive Forums .com does not have the practical ability to restrict conduct or communications that might violate these Guidelines prior to transmission on AOL or the Web, nor can we ensure prompt removal of offending discussion forum posts.

We also reserve the right to remove your membership should you violate these Guidelines."

So here's some "Mod threads" please spot the guideline violations if you can... :)


http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t80200.html http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t94326.html http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t94868.html

What's the point to this thread again?

The reason for this is that we do not need members help deciding a moderator. If you feel that a forum you frequent needs another/different mod, please PM a mod. At the moment we feel, except in isolated cases such as Subaru and Nissan forums, that there are ample mods to make sure the membership has an enjoyable experience. If we decide a new one is needed, we MAY take suggestions, but the initiative will come from us. See my point? If we need help, we will ask for it. If there is a query/problem, PM one of us.

another point....some of the people that start threads asking to be mods are the very last people who would be suited.It's difficult for us to make yes/no decisions at the best of times,but it is not our intention to humilliate anyone by denying them in an open thread.It's much simpler to ask that people don't start these threads.We have enough active mods to get a fair overview of the membership and deal with mod recruitment issues by concensus in the more discreet arena of the mod forum.

Being a moderator at AF is a don't come to us, we'll come to you basis- something taht should be written into the guidelines- we don't just make people moderators for the helll of it- and a certain few members have blown thier chances to be moderators by constantly asking. if a forum needs a mod- one is assigned- simple as that- this also involves a lot of discussion- we pick a list of mods and narrow it down to one or to then inform the member.

The purpose of this thread was not to find out who is not worthy (in your minds) to suggest or become a moderator, but rather to find out what guidlines these posts violated that would require them to be closed. Anybody want to give me an actual answer?

Originally posted by Oz
If we need help, we will ask for it. If there is a query/problem, PM one of us.

^That's our point. We don't need suggestions on the boards. If someone wants to moderate a forum or thinks that a moderator for a forum is needed, we prefer the discussion to be private. The history of those kinds of threads leads to a bunch of members with less-than-desirable qualities asking to be moderator. Quite frankly, that happens far too often, and it becomes such a hassle to say "Don't call me, we'll call you" every time someone says that a moderator is needed somewhere. Is any of my rambling making sense to anyone??? :confused:

The problem is, that you guys keep insisting that you only give moderators to forums that "need" them, but I can't believe this.
The Fiat forums have TWO moderators, and the Geo forums have ZERO moderators, the Geo forums also have more than twice as many posts as the Fiat forums do! So why are there two moderators for forums that hardly anybody posts in, and not even one for a forum with nearly three times as many posts?

Please clear this up for me.:)

PS: PMing mods doesn't seem to accomplish anything... some aren't even nice enough to respond.

Originally posted by 2strokebloke
PS: PMing mods doesn't seem to accomplish anything... some aren't even nice enough to respond.

not exactly relivent, but once i PM'd Oz saying i liked his sig, and he never sent a reply :(

Originally posted by Oz
At the moment we feel, except in isolated cases such as Subaru and Nissan forums, that there are ample mods to make sure the membership has an enjoyable experience.

My lord, you can say that about the 240SX section....

2strokebloke - This is the kind of thing we like dealt with swiftly. If you had a specific example in mind, you should have PMed one of us STRAIGHT AWAY. Try to PM a fairly active mod as well, one you see post quite frequently. I'll get someone on to that for you.

Sean Quinn - Thank you for the compliment, but try to understand my life. I am a full time student going to uni 5 days a week, and working 2 days on weekends. That leaves me a sum total of 0 full days free. My free time is sweet fuck all. Whatever time I am posting on AF, it is usually in the 15 mins before meeting someone for lunch at uni or at 12am at night before sleep. I appreciate the comments, but simply don't have time to respond to all the PMs I get (sometimes gets into double figures PER DAY). If it was something crititcal like 'this member is stalking me' or 'this forum doesn't have a mod', you must beleive me that it would have been taken care of swiftly.

Dorikin - A 240 member PMed me not long ago and I started some motions in the mod forum, unfortunately Igor is not on here much, even compared to most mods, and doesn't have the opportunity to jump all over these things as we would all like.

:) Thanks all,
Oz

Originally posted by Oz
2strokebloke - This is the kind of thing we like dealt with swiftly. If you had a specific example in mind, you should have PMed one of us STRAIGHT AWAY. Try to PM a fairly active mod as well, one you see post quite frequently. I'll get someone on to that for you.

Sean Quinn - Thank you for the compliment, but try to understand my life. I am a full time student going to uni 5 days a week, and working 2 days on weekends. That leaves me a sum total of 0 full days free. My free time is sweet fuck all. Whatever time I am posting on AF, it is usually in the 15 mins before meeting someone for lunch at uni or at 12am at night before sleep. I appreciate the comments, but simply don't have time to respond to all the PMs I get (sometimes gets into double figures PER DAY). If it was something crititcal like 'this member is stalking me' or 'this forum doesn't have a mod', you must beleive me that it would have been taken care of swiftly.

Dorikin - A 240 member PMed me not long ago and I started some motions in the mod forum, unfortunately Igor is not on here much, even compared to most mods, and doesn't have the opportunity to jump all over these things as we would all like.

:) Thanks all,
Oz

think of it this way 2strokebloke. you're walking through the mall, and you see someone, for example, putting together a skateboard in a skateboard store. now, you're not going to walk in and start flinging suggestions at that person about how they're doing their job wrong, are you? THEY'RE the ones who were hired to do the job because they were deemed to be fit to do it right. in the same vein, the mods on AF were chosen because they were seen to be fit to do the job that was needed. they don't need someone inexperienced (that goes for everyone, not just you) coming on here and telling them how to do their job, right? i don't know where you work, or if you even HAVE a job, but if you do, i'd assume you wouldn't take too kindly to some random person coming up to you and telling you how to do your job. think of it that way. ;)

and yeah, the 240SX forum has been experiencing a bit of chaos lately, but i have faith that Igor will make a good decision concerning a new mod and hopefully all will be well again soon enough.

Originally posted by Oz

Sean Quinn - Thank you for the compliment, but try to understand my life. I am a full time student going to uni 5 days a week, and working 2 days on weekends. That leaves me a sum total of 0 full days free. My free time is sweet fuck all. Whatever time I am posting on AF, it is usually in the 15 mins before meeting someone for lunch at uni or at 12am at night before sleep. I appreciate the comments, but simply don't have time to respond to all the PMs I get (sometimes gets into double figures PER DAY). If it was something crititcal like 'this member is stalking me' or 'this forum doesn't have a mod', you must beleive me that it would have been taken care of swiftly.


you seem to have enough time to find crazy jokes though :p
but yes, i understand

Originally posted by S13_Iketani


think of it this way 2strokebloke. you're walking through the mall, and you see someone, for example, putting together a skateboard in a skateboard store. now, you're not going to walk in and start flinging suggestions at that person about how they're doing their job wrong, are you? THEY'RE the ones who were hired to do the job because they were deemed to be fit to do it right. in the same vein, the mods on AF were chosen because they were seen to be fit to do the job that was needed. they don't need someone inexperienced (that goes for everyone, not just you) coming on here and telling them how to do their job, right?

I think you need to read the first post one more time...
Allow me to reiterate: This thread was not started for debating who should be worthy of suggesting or becoming a moderator. Rather I posted this because I wanted to know why suggestions for moderating forums were being "locked" when the guideline states: "We will listen willingly to your suggestions and complaints, and try to incorporate your ideas in everything we do"

Part of their "job" is to "listen willingly" to these suggestions to make the forums even better. I hope you understand my point more clearly now:)

If I run into anymore problems I'll be sure to PM several moderators to make sure I can be heard next time.
For all those who listened and provided actual information - thank you.

If we want mods, we will ask.

Originally posted by 2strokebloke
..Rather I posted this because I wanted to know why suggestions for moderating forums were being "locked" when the guideline states: "We will listen willingly to your suggestions and complaints, and try to incorporate your ideas in everything we do"

Part of their "job" is to "listen willingly" to these suggestions to make the forums even better. I hope you understand my point more clearly now:)
...

As Taranaki already said, who is and isn't in "the runnings" to be a mod isn't something to be discussed in public forums. It wouldn't be right for a member to start up a thread saying "I want to be a mod" and then have the moderators reply and say "sorry, no, you're an asshole" "you're too immature, not in a million years" "forget it, you're lucky to be a member". Moderators are not selected by the members of AF, this is not a democracy. It is a privately owned and operated website, and the owner is solely in charge of deciding who is and isn't a moderator. Therefore there is no purpose for members to repeatedly ask in public forums to BE moderators - in fact when they start many threads about this it's just displaying the kind of immaturity we DON'T want from a mod.

By the way: Just because a thread is locked, doesn't mean we didn't " listen willingly to your suggestions and complaints, and try to incorporate your ideas in everything we do". Matter of fact, it means the opposite. Your opinion has been noted, and as it is an issue for moderators to discuss, rather than members, the thread has been closed. However the discussion may continue in the Moderator forum.

When it comes to mods... I'm going to paraphrase someone else...

"Many are willing but only a few are asked."

"Some of those asked have reluctantly passed on the opportunity as they are mindful of the responsibilities and duties that the position holds. The opportunity may not come to them again but knowing enough of how onerous the position held can be - they have absolved themselves of that duty and remain part of the general populace - they remain out there with everyone else content with their contributions and deeds speak loudly enough without a badge of office."

All I ask is you consider that before longing to assume responsibility - it sounds good and it massages your ego initially but it can make you weary and fatigued - the community has seen folk who've become mods slowly slip from view as the job takes it toll.

Sometimes like a policeman they seem their to curb the pursuit of personal freedom and enjoyment but at the end of their day, their job is ensure everyone in the community enjoys the environment and feels safe and not threatened (apart from maybe kicker but that's past history).... :devil:

"Therefore there is no purpose for members to repeatedly ask in public forums to BE moderators "

As I'm relatively new here I think it goes without saying that I'm ignorant of things that have happened prior to my membership, would you care to give an example of this?

Also, what'd be wrong with forum members discussing who they'd think would be a good moderator, after all you wouldn't want to make the mistake of appointing a person who everybody thinks is a jerk, would you?
So here's the thing, can moderators actually just close threads that in no way go against the board guidelines? isn't that an abuse of their position as moderator? Doesn't that make them immature?

Please let me remind you that this is not saying that I beleive all moderators would abuse their position in this way, but is just a question about these sort of situations.

Originally posted by 2strokebloke

Also, what'd be wrong with forum members discussing who they'd think would be a good moderator, after all you wouldn't want to make the mistake of appointing a person who everybody thinks is a jerk, would you?
So here's the thing, can moderators actually just close threads that in no way go against the board guidelines? isn't that an abuse of their position as moderator? Doesn't that make them immature?


Without intending to look or seem stuck-up, we see a lot more than you might think. Just because no one is a listed moderator for a forum doesn't mean we don't read-up on what's going on. We know how members respond to one another. We don't just pick them out of our... populus, contrary to what some may think. That is why members don't really need to give their "official" input as to whom they support. If someone shows as a particularly exceptional person, PM a mod and we'll keep our eyes open for them (we watch the good as well as the bad).

As for mods closing threads that are not in violation of the guidelines... Sometimes topics (like "soandso should be a mod") have a history of leading into flames and general disorder. That's why we nip them in the bud before they get too far. It's like having police at a rally... It doesn't mean that people will necessarily get out of hand, but precautionary measures are already in place beforehand.

"It's like having police at a rally... It doesn't mean that people will necessarily get out of hand, but precautionary measures are already in place beforehand."

Perfect anology, lets say that the moderators are the police, and that closing threads is like the police using their weapon etc.
The moderators are there to watch and make sure everything goes on right, when something goes wrong, they are there to stop the problem, but as you can see in situations like this they pull out their weapons and give the crowd a beating before anything has actually happened...

Please provide an example of when a thread suggesting that a forum be moderated has turned into a flame war.

Originally posted by 2strokebloke
...y happened...

Please provide an example of when a thread suggesting that a forum be moderated has turned into a flame war.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=847163#post847163

And this was a mere discussion about new mods, and as you can see someone threw a pissy fit that they weren't selected, further proving that they were not a suitable candidate for modship.

On the other hand, though everyone over 13 and not obnoxious is welcome at AF, I really don't understand why you insist on staying even though you are ovbiously not happy with the way things are run.

I really think this has been done to death now. Any other queries, suggestions or questions relating to this thread or topic, feel free to PM me or any other mod.

Thank You,
Management.