got power, but no idiot lights.

car stalled on freeway, had towed to my place, when it stalled it conked out on a street before the freeway and the lights on the dash blinked rapidly, also the door locks locked then unlocked rapidly, then it stalled. Started it back up and proceded to get on freeway, where it stalled again.
Battery less than 6mos. old is at 12.8v alternator less than 2 yrs old is good, tried a control module from the junkyard still nothing.

its a 1994 grand prix 3.1L
checked as best I could for any wiring shorts, battery terminals are on nice and tight.
I get nothing on the dash when i turn key on, I do however get the courtesy lights.
IS It the TIMING BELT, I've never had one go out on me, but would it be doing this if the timing belt is broken?

Checked all fuses, everywhere I could and they are all good.

This is my daily commuter so any help or insights would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Your car has a timing chain, which can still fail on occasion, usually is good for the life of the motor.

Will the starter crank when the key is turned to start?

Yep, starter cranks just fine, I cannot hear the fuel pump initialize and the dash is completely dead, however i do get the courtesy lights.

Is there a main wiring harness that could be the culprit? I dont think things are initializing properly, because when you put your key in you get nothing, maybe its the main wiring harness, if so how easy is it to replace?

Sounds like a bad ignition switch to me.

You mean the ignition control module underneath the coils?

Just did a search on autozones site and the picture they have for the ignition switch is somewhere underneath the dash, maybe near the steering column, as I do not know where it is located? Does it mount near the fuse for the ignition?

Check all your fuses, especially the big ones for the ignition system. Look for power going to them also with a test light or DVOM.

And no, the ignition module and ignition switch are two different items. Which reminds me, do you have spark from the coils?

The Ignition switch I am talking about is in the steering column. I will see if I can find a write-up on replacement for you.

Have you noticed any puffs or smells of smoke recently from inside of your car?

here is a write-up for 97-03 GP's, I cannot find one for prior years, but this gives you an idea.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=653340

I will have to check the fuse with a voltmeter. as well as check for spark at the coils (How do i do that?)

In my honest opinion the electrical problem is kind of distinctive which would lead me to believe faulty ignition switch on the steering column. just the way the lights flickered and when I went to start the car the dash lights came on normally, then now all of a sudden they dont come on period when trying to crank the car.

the ignition switch is a cheap enough of a fix to try.

Thanks

oh and i havent smelled any burned electronics smell from inside the car...whats an easy way to check for spark? Also when Im checking for voltage on the fuse, i should have key in on position?

ok so a little background on how i start the car. I wired a push button start directly to the starter and it has worked for the better part of a year. ( I had to do this as i had a shop install a new keylock cylinder, but that failed and it was out of their warranty to fix it) SO I got the resistance of key pellet and pulled the Orng/wht wires from the keylock cylinder and at that connection installed the resistor fix and it has worked flawlessly till now.

I just searched the forums for ignition switch and read this:

Wiring diagram has been sent. As a temporary fix you could install a push button switch inside the car. Remove the small purple wire from the starter & connect the switch wires between the purple wire & S terminal. To start the engine you'll have to press the push button & turn the key to start at the same time.

If the temporary fix cures the problem then you need to figure out if the ignition or park/neutral switch is bad.

I think that purple wire maybe needed to come off when i installed my pushbutton start fix, thus this may have shorted out the ignition switch now, so if I go to put in a new ignition switch I will have to take off that little purple wire on the starter correct?

The ignition switch is inside the steering column. The fact that you had to start your car with a push button also makes me wonder if this is also tied to a bad ignition switch.

To check for spark at the coils, just remove both plug wires on a single coil, then have an assisstant crank it for a few seconds, you should see spark jumping accross the gap between the exposed coil terminals. If you have no spark, I would wonder if your ignition system is getting power. Does your fuel pump run when you turn your key to on?

no fuel pump noise whatsoever, no headlights or dash lights, just the little courtesy bulbs underneath.

Wondering if the inhibitor in the ignition switch is the culprit...
Will try to change it out tomorrow, btw, the only reason I have a push button start installed is the keylock cylinder doesnt crank the car, so i got the resistance of the key and installed resistors on that circuit(going to the ecm)

So Im guessing the ignition switch is somehow tied in to this keylock as you have to take out the keylock to change out the switch.

thanks:confused:

So Im guessing the ignition switch is somehow tied in to this keylock as you have to take out the keylock to change out the switch.

You are correct, it is the ignition switch that applies voltage to your ignition system (Coils, fuel pump, dummy lights), and also to the starter when you crank. Which if the Ignition switch is replaced, I wouldn't doubt if your starter no longer will need the push button to start.

You could still have a blown fuse. Go doen near the drivers feet, you may have to remove the lower panel. Inside you will find a large electrical junction block. Coming out of which you will find 6 large wires, two reds, a pink, pink with white line, yellow, purple, or orange. check for voltage on the two reds. They should have constant battery voltage. Then with ignition on, both pinks should have voltage. If they do not, the ignition switch is shot.

(don't quote me on the colors though, I am just going by memory on remote starter installs from different GM vehicles so they could be different on your car).

OK, I am assuming these are the six wires coming from the ignition switch. The constant battery voltage is present on red, and red/white. Turn key to on and no other wire has voltage, not even the red and red/white. so bad ignition switch it sounds like.
Question do I need to pull the steering wheel off for this? I see the two bolts that hold down the steering column, any other thoughts as the covers to the column where the tilt is I do not see any screws or bolts. I will try to tackle this now.

THanks again for your help

I agree it's either an ignition switch or possibly corrosion on the underside of the main relay/fuse center under the hood.

If it's an ignition switch, keep in mind that there are two different ignition switches for your car.

One with a floor/console shift, AC-delco part #D1479c
http://webcaps.ecomm.gm.com/internet/ViewPartImage.jsp?acdelcoPartNumber=D1479C

and one with a steering column mounted shifter, AC-Delco part# D1477c
http://webcaps.ecomm.gm.com/internet/ViewPartImage.jsp?acdelcoPartNumber=D1477C

The links above are pictures from Delco's website of the two parts. They look simailar and installation is the same on either. There is a rod that runs along the top of the steering column that runs down to the switch where it attaches to the column, then the other end attaches to the wiring harness under the dash.

hmmm, the one with the wiring harness underneath the dash sounds very tantalizing as it sounds easier to install. The chiltons manual includes tons of extra steps, but what I've got now is 4 - 13mm bolts taken out. 2 from the front underneath the gear selector sortof the column supports, and two right on the lower firewall and the column supported by a jackstand, however I thought to myself since i had it towed to my driveway from the alley way the tow truck driver could not angle it in so we just pushed it as far and the wheels arent straight

So question do i have to straighten out the wheel and then lower the steering column enough to just pop off the ignition switch?

Whats a good way to lower the steering column, right now I see two bolts on the front on a brace, and two bolts at the end of the steering column on a brace looking thing on the firewall

Thanks

You should not have to lower the steering column. But if you must, the is probably 4 nuts and then I usually just rest the column on the drivers seat.

The ignition switch (depending on the type you have as Rich mentioned), usually just have to remove the plastic covers around the steering column. I did one on an old acheiva which might be similar, I just had to remove the column covers, and then there were bolts holding the ignition switch in (torx bolts I believe).

Part was approx 50.00 if I remember right.

Ok sor your right , i do have the steering wheel supported by the drivers seat, i see the rod that runs along the steering column, and i got the bolts off of the ignition switch I can lift it off the column but this rod goes into the switch somehow, and just wanted to clarify the the rod just clips on somehow and alls i have to do is unclip it, you mention that it goes to the wiring harness, but i think it might start from steering wheel, then maybe stop at the ignition switch ??

Ok, so you have the type of switch that I have never worked on. But I have seen a similar type used a lot on ford vehicles but I am sure they are different.

On the ignition switch, there should be a large set of wires going to it, and that rod will come from towards the steering wheel and stop at the switch. I have no idea how it disconnects. Just be carefull not to break anything.

Good Luck.

so the ignition switch is a special order part, will be here on tuesday:grinno:

coulda got the one from schucks for $140 and it would be here on monday
but instead i got the one from autozone for $66 and it will be here tuesday.

at least i have time to figure how that rod disconnects.

Thanks and i hope this works!

Thanks and i hope this works!

Me too, but when you have the new one in and your car starts, please report back to let us know the good news.

Guys, I definitely need your help. Got the new switch, got the wires plugged into the main harness, then my attention turns to mounting it on the steering column.
So the rod that extends from the key cylinder has dielectric grease remaining on the very end of it where the ignition switch goes, but I, for the life of me cannot figure it out as there is sort of a slot with dielectric grease in it and at the end of this slot (which is basically cut into the mounting bracket on the switch) there is a 2mm wide circular pin that actuates up and down, I am presumming by the rod, but I cannot get all the things to align to mount correctly.

which leads me now to my second problem by futzing around with the stupid switch, my steering wheel has now done a 180 and now looks to be realigned. I am going to head to the library tomorrow to see if i can find some diagrams on how to mount the darn switch, I woulda thought the new one would come with instructions.

Any thoughts on how to mount?

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?7fc71232c0.jpghttp://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/7fc71232c0.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/c6aed50cfd.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/aab1790d1b.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

I hope someone can tell me how the rod is supposed to get into the ignition switch on the bottom there, am i supposed to just bend it?

Images did not make it through for me.

Is the switch in upside down maybe?

Did you compare the old switch to the new one before you put it in?

i have some good pics of my steering column and the slot where i think the rod goes, the replacement switch is the exact same dimensions, and the mounting holes on the steering column line up for me to mount the switch, but the rod doesnt even align anywhere close to the switch, i regret not taking pics before i took off the original switch as I have waited a couple of days for my memory to start deceiving me but I have everything mounted its just the rod, which is the heart and soul of the stupid thing doesnt align up. what is the normal format for posting pics, or can i just email to you? I tried a free image hosting site, and pasted in the url they gave me...I went to the library and got nothing, its like this 1994 is a black hole as far as that goes...

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8308/seetherod.jpghttp://img638.imageshack.us/img638/8985/whereitmounts.jpghttp://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6401/switchnotmountedseeslot.jpg

The actuating rod in the first pic is cocked to the right while the ignition switch is kinda up at an angle in this pic that is how it is mounted, Im kicking myself for not truly paying attention to the old one and how it was installed.

OK so found out how the ignition switch installs to the actuating rod. BUT still no change, still have no crank, and no turnover. No lights on the dash. I will check voltages later on, but any ideas, as the new ignition switch doesnt turn the car over?

Didn't it crank with the old switch? Check for voltage on the main red wires (which you had before, correct?) When you swapped the switch over, did you disconnect the battery? Go up front near the starter and make sure the fusable links weren't melted on accident (happened to me before because my dumbass didn't disconnect the battery).

It never cranked with the old ignition switch. I spent yesterday putting in a new crankshaft position sensor, as a friend said that he experienced same symptoms, but my condition hasnt changed.

I just got the wiring diagrams from the publis library website, and it looks like I will be revers engineering all the wiring.

once again, all it does is crank, but not turn over, I probably have multiple problems here, but would like it to just turn over. I need to figure out the power distribution, starting, charging wiring and check them all for voltages. (and relays too) I did notice that the two yellows from the ignition switch go to the "Theft Deterrant Relay", then to starter enable.

Will have to check that out. Oh and btw, all procedures have been done with the negative cable off.