Need Help Quick! Insurance question...

Hi all,

My wife lightly rear-ended an old Honda Civic the other day - light damage to the Civic (rear bumper dented, taillight, no body damage) and her car lost the front headlight and turn signal, missed the bumper, very slight body damage. They agreed to settle out of insurance.

Here's the problem. We go to a trusted body shop right by where the incident happened. He took his car there for a quote and the guy said $1600 with NEW parts, he was looking into getting used parts for quite a bit less. The guy now says he doesn't 'trust' this place and went to his own body shop, who wants $2300 for the same work! I know we are a bit screwed because it was her that rearended the guy, but how can there be such a major difference in the pricing when our guy quoted all new parts! I don't want to pay $2300 for an early-90's POS rusty Civic...I'm thinking his body shop is fixing other things and putting it on our tab.

So basically we don't have control over where he takes his car to get it fixed, but is there any way we can make the shop he DOES go to accountable for the work they do and how much this should cost? Also, if we say we would like to take it through insurance, will we get an 'at fault' charge and a rate hike if he claims damage through is own insurance?

This happened yesterday and things are happening quick - if any of you guys have a suggestion, please help!

Cheers.

Not much you can do bar asking for an copy of an itemised bill.

They can dick you around forever with this. You didn't say what exact year it was or what options there are, but a loaded 95 civic with only 50k miles is worth, at most, about 3000 according to Kelley Blue Book. There are also legal implications for you if they begin to say their driver was injured in the accident (which they might use if you don't pay them what they want)

My recommendation is to call your insurance company immediately and report the accident. Then call the other person and give them your claim number. Let the insurance company tell them their early 90's Honda Civic is worth [probably] less than 1500 Blue Book and cut them a check. This is what you pay insurance for - to handle this stuff.

I used to do auto claims liability, and saw many people get totally screwed trying to handle things like this....things like, you pay the 2300 to fix their car, then suddenly more damage is "found" and they want more and more. Then you pay them a little more and that can continue. Then, they might even report it to their own insurance company, and guess what? You're out your 2300+ and they call you "sucka".

The injury stuff....if the other driver now reports an injury in this minor accident (it is VERY common for them to do so) you can be held responsible for their medical bills. And yes, they could go to the ER and just get "checked out" after the accident, and you'd be responsible.

The worst part? In your policy there is language stating that if you don't report an accident in a timely manner, that they can 1) Not pay for that accident and possibly 2) cancel your entire policy. So if you don't report it and they find out, you could not only be responsible for the vehicle damage but any fake medical bills they decide to whip up.

There may be a surcharge/increase or not, depending on a lot of factors like how long you've had them as your company, any accident forgiveness policies they have, etc. But that's worth taking the risk for rather than this guy railroading you to pay more than the car's worth.

Do yourself a favor and report it to your company. I'll be VERY interested to see how this comes out. I bet they pay less than 800 to the other driver.

They can dick you around forever with this. You didn't say what exact year it was or what options there are, but a loaded 95 civic with only 50k miles is worth, at most, about 3000 according to Kelley Blue Book. There are also legal implications for you if they begin to say their driver was injured in the accident (which they might use if you don't pay them what they want)

My recommendation is to call your insurance company immediately and report the accident. Then call the other person and give them your claim number. Let the insurance company tell them their early 90's Honda Civic is worth [probably] less than 1500 Blue Book and cut them a check. This is what you pay insurance for - to handle this stuff.

I used to do auto claims liability, and saw many people get totally screwed trying to handle things like this....things like, you pay the 2300 to fix their car, then suddenly more damage is "found" and they want more and more. Then you pay them a little more and that can continue. Then, they might even report it to their own insurance company, and guess what? You're still out your 2300.

The injury stuff....if the other driver now reports an injury in this minor accident (it is VERY common for them to do so) you can be held responsible for their medical bills. And yes, they could go to the ER and just get "checked out" after the accident, and you'd be responsible.

The worst part? In your policy there is language stating that if you don't report an accident in a timely manner, that they can 1) Not pay for that accident and possibly 2) cancel your entire policy. So if you don't report it and they find out, you could not only be responsible for the vehicle damage but any fake medical bills they decide to whip up.

There may be a surcharge/increase or not, depending on a lot of factors like how long you've had them as your company, any accident forgiveness policies they have, etc. But that's worth taking the risk for rather than this guy railroading you to pay more than the car's worth.

Do yourself a favor and report it to your company. I'll be VERY interested to see how this comes out. I bet they pay less than 800 to the other driver.

This sounds like something that happened to me a long time ago but the collision was a little more serious. I didn't take it through insurance because I was a young single male driver, and we all know how much they love to charge those of us doomed to be in that insurance bracket. Anyways, ended up the guy was claiming 'injury', and my insurance found out about it and threatened to cancel my claim and boosted my rate bigtime. I figured because this was such a minor hit that we could solve it outside, but yeah, you're right, what's stopping the guy from getting whatever he can.

Thanks for the tip. I'll keep this thread going as the situation evolves, I'm interested to see how it works out too!

Cheers.

Yeah, the young unmarried male driver thing is bad, but since it was your wife that had the accident, well, now you're a young married driver, which puts you in a completely better category.

Any update on this? What happened?

Any update on this? What happened?

Well, since I last posted, it's turned into a bit of a fiasco - I didn't post because I figured it would come out more like complaining, and the last thing I want to be is a complainer.

But anyways, my wife reported the incident to her insurance company. Apparently the other guy did the same - it makes sense for him, it was a free repair. But for us, it really sucks because her insurance was basically holding on by a thread, we were the lowest rank, and with this incident our insurance company has declined to renew our policy, meaning we now have to claim insurance with a high-risk company, and it looks like it is going to cost about double what we are paying now. And this is for a $1000 bumper on an old Honda!

It all got complicated really quick - had the guy been trustworthy that we ran into, we would have been more than happy to take his car to a reputable body shop and have it repaired to as-new condition. But because he wanted to push it, and who knows what he would have asked for next, he claimed on his insurance and so did we - so now we're screwed.

Since I have a good record, I think I will stay on independently with our current insurer, and she will have to go and get 'facility' insurance somewhere else for at least a year. I believe after a year we can reapply for insurance at a recognized branch and the rates will go back down.

I have come to realize that you can't win with car insurance under our current system. It really does suck. If you hit someone from behind, no matter what the circumstances, it seems nobody is willing to give you a break, even if you offer up to pay for the damage yourself. It seems to me like they are promoting lying and cheating - not telling the insurance company about an incident is about the only way to avoid massively high premiums. Or just don't get in a collision, but sometimes that is easier said than done.

If you have any ideas as to what our options might be now that we are 'uninsurable' by the big brands, I'd be glad to hear them, but from what I've heard so far we're up a creek as they say.

Cheers.
A.

Sorry to hear your insurance company won't renew. If you have 2 cars, then I'd insure the one you drive with whoever (make sure to exclude your wife from the policy, it will be cheaper that way), even your current company. Find out how long they will not insure her, then add her back later.

I'm curious how you guys got to this "bottom tier" situation anyway...has your wife had a lot of accidents in the past? Just being nosy.

Hey that's cool. There's a crappy story behind the bottom-tier situation. And first off, I will be the first to admit my wife isn't the best driver. She is not as attentive as she could be, especially in following the lines of the road. This sounds bad and I try to correct her on it, but if you're married or have a lady-friend, you know how well that works! :banghead:

One of my pet peeves is bad drivers, so whenever we go anywhere I offer to drive. It's little things like cutting corners or going over the lines around corners - they are there for a reason! Ha ha.

The first at-fault she got into was on a congested major highway. Traffic was moving about 80 Km/h, she was in the slow lane, and the van that was driving (at a safe distance) in front of her immediately veered into the left lane. In front of that van was a parked SUV, someone who did not know how a merging lane works and decided to stop on the highway to let people in. Needless to say she was traveling too fast to stop, and because there was no shoulder and the lanes on the left were congested, there was little option but to rear-end the GMC Jimmy in front. The bewildered driver of the Jimmy (a 17-year-old girl learning to drive with her father...) didn't seem interested in the accident, but it was automatically an at-fault for us for doing the rear-ending. The Canadian drivers handbook regulates that a safe driving distance is 2 seconds...well let me tell you, if the car in front of you yanks the wheel and disappears into the next lane leaving a stopped object in front of you, that isn't a whole lot of time! I honestly felt bad for her, it was a tough situation.

About a year after that, she got a speeding ticket for 10 km/h over the limit, and the insurance company sees anything between 5 - 49 km/h over the limit as the same thing - go figure. So with those two offenses, this most recent offense totals 2 accidents and a ticket, meaning on paper she is a liability. Speeding tickets carry a 2-year demerit and at-fault accidents a 6-year, so we can get back into the game in 1-year's time, but it will take as much as 7 years to get back to a perfect record.

It sucks because what she lacks in driving skill, she makes up for in being respectful of other drivers, and I have to give her credit for that - it's something I don't see a lot of these days. She never cuts people off by pulling out or passing improperly, always uses her signals, brakes early and doesn't ram on the brakes at the last second, generally a very courteous driver - it makes you wish there was more to a math equation to insurance rates. Sadly, they don't care...it's a business, and they can make more money so they will take the opportunity.

Wow, yeah the accident she had is sometimes called "unveiling"...keeping a safe distance from the vehicle in front of you, it moves quickly over and -ohno- there's an unmoving obstacle...bad stuff. I'm sure you tried to explain to the insurance company how it happened, but they probably weren't interested in hearing it.

Well, at least you didn't pay the other driver cash for his repairs -- since he went to his insurance company after all. Looks like you will have a year of higher premiums for her then things will start to improve......

I've never heard the term 'unveiling' but yeah, that pretty well describes it. The way I figure this whole thing has unfolded is a bit of a setback but not the end of the world. What we would have paid the guy in cash is likely the cost of the additional premiums on our insurance over the next year, and at least that way we aren't getting screwed by this guy if he decides to turn it around and claim injury.

Interesting story about the 'unveiling'. IMO it may have been worthwhile to sue that 17-year old girl and her dad for damages, including your higher premiums.

The argument may have been tricky and require witnesses, but unnecessary stopping like that constitutes careless driving.

Insurance issues are very frustrating. So many issues are at work here to boost rates.
Here's a few:

1. Body shops pad insurance repair bills and regularly kick-back 15% of the claim to the tow truck drivers who bring in damaged vehicles. That is why there are so many 'chaser' tow trucks all over Ontario highways. They do not make money towing, they make it on kickbacks.
So, without corrupt kickbacks, many repair bills would be 15% cheaper right away.

2. Fake injuries and damages. Sometimes, when people get into an accident not their fault, they think they have won the lottery and fake evidence to get every dime they can, again, unfairly bilking the insurance company..... and your premiums.

My wife, who rarely drives has been hit three times in recent years, by other cars, who have all fled the scene. This seems to happen a lot. People have a minor crash and do not stick around at all. The risk of insurance hassle is so great they would rather break the law and flee rather than deal with the expense.

Even if they flee, they are not charged with leaving the scene. My wife chased down one of the people who hit her car (followed her with the horn on until the other driver stopped) The other driver either a bit senile or drunk (seriously) but should not have been driving. She eventually went to an accident reporting center, where this lady got off scott-free even after comitting 2 traffic violations (unsafe lane change and fleeing the scene)

This leads me to the next problem...... the terrible state of collision investigation in Ontario. Unless you have a personal injury accident.... you simply go to an accident reporting center after a collision ....... where the cops simply record the details but never actually charge anyone for committing a crime.

So, imo, the best way to protect oneself against such victimization is to drive with a video camera. An instant video of the circumstances of a collision and the other drivers statements may shame them into playing fairly when it comes to fixing the damage. If they don't..... post the video on Youtube and email them a link........

Wow, I didn't know things were that way in Ontario!

Interesting story about the 'unveiling'. IMO it may have been worthwhile to sue that 17-year old girl and her dad for damages, including your higher premiums.

The argument may have been tricky and require witnesses, but unnecessary stopping like that constitutes careless driving.

Insurance issues are very frustrating. So many issues are at work here to boost rates.
Here's a few:

1. Body shops pad insurance repair bills and regularly kick-back 15% of the claim to the tow truck drivers who bring in damaged vehicles. That is why there are so many 'chaser' tow trucks all over Ontario highways. They do not make money towing, they make it on kickbacks.
So, without corrupt kickbacks, many repair bills would be 15% cheaper right away.

2. Fake injuries and damages. Sometimes, when people get into an accident not their fault, they think they have won the lottery and fake evidence to get every dime they can, again, unfairly bilking the insurance company..... and your premiums.

My wife, who rarely drives has been hit three times in recent years, by other cars, who have all fled the scene. This seems to happen a lot. People have a minor crash and do not stick around at all. The risk of insurance hassle is so great they would rather break the law and flee rather than deal with the expense.

Even if they flee, they are not charged with leaving the scene. My wife chased down one of the people who hit her car (followed her with the horn on until the other driver stopped) The other driver either a bit senile or drunk (seriously) but should not have been driving. She eventually went to an accident reporting center, where this lady got off scott-free even after comitting 2 traffic violations (unsafe lane change and fleeing the scene)

This leads me to the next problem...... the terrible state of collision investigation in Ontario. Unless you have a personal injury accident.... you simply go to an accident reporting center after a collision ....... where the cops simply record the details but never actually charge anyone for committing a crime.

So, imo, the best way to protect oneself against such victimization is to drive with a video camera. An instant video of the circumstances of a collision and the other drivers statements may shame them into playing fairly when it comes to fixing the damage. If they don't..... post the video on Youtube and email them a link........

You've got some of the facts right, but Ontario law says that the police must be called to the scene of an accident if damages are assessed to be more than $1500 - which today is basically a headlight! So - people don't just drive off to a collision center, a police officer shows up and assesses the situation, lays charges if deemed appropriate, and then the collision center thing.

Also, there's no need to carry a video camera as this can unnecessarily create a tense situation with the other driver - All you have to do is memorize or write down the license plate number of the other driver, report it, and let the police do the work. Trust me, the insurance company doesn't want to pay for your car, and they will work desperately to make someone else (i.e. the guy that hit you) pay the tab. A digital camera probably isn't a bad idea.

Faking an injury is called insurance fraud, and carries a hefty penalty - up to 10 years in prison, a $5,000 fine, and cancelled (and often unrenewable) insurance. It is fairly easy to catch people in the act as well, and believe me, before your insurance company hands over $1M in liability, they will have every high-paid lawyer in the city scrutinize the case with doctors and physiotherapists and osteopaths to assess if the situation is legitimate.

You are dead-on with the body shops though - as soon as they hear 'insurance claim' their ears perk up and they start adding up the dollars. But according to the law, this is also illegal, and if discovered that they are vastly marking up an insurance claim they can be sued and/or fined.

If you follow the right steps in dealing with a collision, it may pan out to be costly do deal with the insurance and the police, but it prevents you from getting caught in the middle of something illegal.

Hit-and-runs are pure cowardliness, and one of my biggest pet peeves. If you have wronged someone, be an effing man (or woman) and own up to your mistake.