Head gasket is leaking 2001 Lesabre

Wow this car is really a lemon. I think I'm going to call it Windows Vista.

I think I have had every major problem you can think of with this darn car. I still love it though. lol

Anyway I have a head gasket leak. I could get a garage to do the job for 1500 bucks but I'm wondering if I should do it instead.

I can do without the car until May so I could work on it in my garage in my spare time.

I have a haynes manual and it gives me a little detail on what needs to be done but I would like a better tutorial than that if anyone has one.

My second concern is do I need to take the engine out or can I do the job with the engine in the car?

I have never done a job this big but I am willing to try. If I fail or give up in frustration I could get it towed.

Anyhow any help on this would be benifical and appreciated. If you think doing it myself would be foolish or unwise for any reason I would like input into that as well. I don't mind working on my car but I admit I have never taken apart half an engine before.

See www.steelseal.com (http://www.steelseal.com) , it might be worth a try.
Play video

Yea I just finished watching that and I doubt that it is a good thing. I would rather fix it right. The car is a 2001 but I think it is still in fairly decent condition. I think that steel seal would be good for a car that is worthless but still runs.
If it fixes it bonus but if it doesn't you could throw the car to the wrecker.

I think this car deserves a proper new gasket kit and machined heads. If I did the steel seal I am almost sure it wouldn't last and it might even damage the engine further.

Thats just my opinion though.

There are lots of on-line instructional videos on this. Although the task looks daunting at first, it is actually very straightforward. Be sure to label all the hoses and wires as you remove them, and take lots of pictures for reference, as you disassemble.

This car has an engine that's fairly easy to work on. Since this has pushrod valve gear, its a lot easier than an overhead cam V6. And no, you do not need to remove the engine.

IMO you should do both heads at the same time. Also, it is very important to send the heads out to a machine shop when they are removed, so they can be checked for cracks and straightness. If you are doing all the work, you want to be sure the heads are not faulty.

I found another video, see www.youtube.com/watch?v=3suQy44G_B0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3suQy44G_B0)
Look at the opions at the bottom.

Volvo use's a head gasket sealer instead of a regular gasket!

Go for it, Rasp. The feeling of accomplishment when you start it up after your overhaul, is almost as good as a weekend with the woman of your dreams. You seem to have the time, and that is a good thing. Haynes is good, label everything, pictures, help from people on this site, and torque to specs and you can do it. Sorry your LeSabre is the Vista equivalent; our 2000 was a dream...must be those cold Winnipeg winters. (smile) Good luck.

Yea I might give it a shot. I really don't know about it being the same as the woman of my dreams but maybe. Do you think you're dreams are a little lame maybe??? lol

I'd drop this car off a cliff for my dreams. Hell I think I'd do it for the hell of it.

If I do it I'm sure I'll need help every so often so be sure to help if you can.

Also again if any of you know of any online tutorial with pics that would be great.

Anyway I have a head gasket leak. Could you explain this a little better, how did you determine that you have a "head gasket leak"? Did you do a leak-down test, compression test, or pressure test?

Well I took it to a garage and they did a pressure test. With that test they determined that there was no external leakage.

They then said that there was no antifreeze in the oil.

But they saw the spark plugs where turning a little white. They said that the antifreeze was burning off in the exhaust. I was definately losing antifreeze roughly (2 litres in a 2 week period).

But nothing was on my garage floor. I have replaced the manifold gaskets already last year. My oil looks clean. I don't get alot of white smoke out of my exhaust pipe but I think that might just mean that the leak is slow enough to not show the white exhaust to any great degree. It is cold here so I do get some exhaust but nothing out of the ordinary.

I know they did the pressure test, Did they do those other tests? I'm not sure I wasn't there for the whole diagnosis and I didn't think to ask either.

When they first did the pressure test on the weekend the guy at the garage told me there wasn't a leak. I told them there was a leak. I had to bring it back on Monday for the, so called, "Master Mechanic" to look at it. They then found that it was leaking and internally. What test they used, I'm not sure of.

Yep!
We charge $250 for a SteelSeal fix, or $1250 for new head gaskets for a 10yr old car.
Who wants to chase a coolant leak?

me if I want to do it correctly. I realize the car isn't new but it also isn't a beater 140 000 km is nothing. And I would rather not have other problems down the road by putting that stuff in my engine.

It's a trade secret in the can, some people might pay $1200 for the same fix.

Well I took it to a garage and they did a pressure test. With that test they determined that there was no external leakage.

They then said that there was no antifreeze in the oil.

But they saw the spark plugs where turning a little white. They said that the antifreeze was burning off in the exhaust. I was definately losing antifreeze roughly (2 litres in a 2 week period).

But nothing was on my garage floor. I have replaced the manifold gaskets already last year. My oil looks clean. I don't get alot of white smoke out of my exhaust pipe but I think that might just mean that the leak is slow enough to not show the white exhaust to any great degree. It is cold here so I do get some exhaust but nothing out of the ordinary.

I know they did the pressure test, Did they do those other tests? I'm not sure I wasn't there for the whole diagnosis and I didn't think to ask either.

When they first did the pressure test on the weekend the guy at the garage told me there wasn't a leak. I told them there was a leak. I had to bring it back on Monday for the, so called, "Master Mechanic" to look at it. They then found that it was leaking and internally. What test they used, I'm not sure of. So far, you have a very suspicious and a lopsided diagnosis! You need to find out exactly where the leak originates and not rely on personal opinions. A "spark plug turning a little white" is definitely not an indication of coolant ingestion! Unless the plugs are covered in a white ash or extremely wet looking, you probably don’t have coolant in the combustion chamber! If you see white smoke from the exhaust for extended periods, does it have a sweet smell? Has your engine ever overheated, or suffered from the lack of coolant protection during extreme low temps? Have your “master mechanic” do a dye test of the coolant to see if exhaust gases are present. Typically, this procedure is more accurate & if the dye changes color, you may be on the right track with head gaskets, or cracked cylinder heads! (Very rare occurrence with cast iron heads & block)
Does steel seal work for a blown head gasket? (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090409200642AAf2kR8)

Do you think you're dreams are a little lame maybe??? lol



I was offering a little support, and injected a little humor. Both will not happen again.

I was offering a little support, and injected a little humor. Both will not happen again.Your support & humor are both welcome additions to this, or any thread! :iceslolan

I was also joking back at you. Hope you caught the LOL at the end of it.

Sometimes hard to tell when it is just typed. But Polarzak I understood yours as a joke and I failed an attempt at being sarcastically funny back at you. No offence intended on my part.

I was just joking. Terrible at it I guess

As far as the engine is concerned. I will pull a plug myself and see what it looks like. I admit I was taking the mechanics word and experience as if it was solid proof that they would have checked and had solid evidence of a head gasket leak.

As far as overheating, I would say not since I owned the car and that has been about roughly 2 years. Car has always had the proper ratio of water : antifreeze for our cold Winter and warm summer.

With the dye test I might try another garage and see if I could get them to do this test. Unless of course its possible for myself to do it. Is it as easy as putting a piece of ph paper in the coolant and have it change a certain color or something like that?

RASP, Has the upper intake ever been replaced? This is a very common failure and its very common to see garages other then GM see this as a head gasket issue.. I am 90% certain you do not have a head gasket issue, but an upper intake problem.. If you do the heads I will recommend to the Extreme if the upper intake has not been replaced that you replace it with an APN or Dorman upper intake...

Also if you have the original upper intake it will have a date stamp on the top of the intake, and you will find a white label to the side that will most likely say Delphi( older ones will say rochester )... If you have the original you may have had the composite erode away around the EGR port causing a leak in the upper intake as coolant passes through it, if this happens it will look like a blown head gasket..

My first suggestion for you if the car still starts is to get some cheap oil ran through it for a couple of minutes... This will wash any contamination away from the bearings...

If you want to be sure do a compression test.. But my gut says you have an upper intake failure

With the dye test I might try another garage and see if I could get them to do this test. Unless of course its possible for myself to do it. Is it as easy as putting a piece of ph paper in the coolant and have it change a certain color or something like that?Click Here (http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/head_gasket_or_combustion_leak_test.htm) & Here (http://www.examiner.com/x-20810-Auto-Mechanic-Examiner%7Ey2009m11d5-Coolant-leaks-You-can-avoid-excessive-repair-bills) for more info on the procedure.

I did have the upper and lower intakes done a year ago. So if it is those again I'd be really ticked at the garage because it was them that did it. This leak started within the year it was done.

As for the Dye test, I called a few places and no one seems to do it. The places I called were fairly major garages. It seems like a great test but so far I haven't found anyone that does it. I'll check the plugs tomorrow.

I'm starting to wonder if the garage might be trying to not get caught up in a warranty issue with my upper and lower manifold gaskets. But wouldn't the coolant go in my oil if that were the case? My oil looks clean. and the level of oil on the dipstick is where it should be. If I had a coolant leak at the manifold wouldn't I see it in my oil???

The exhaust doesn't have any excessive white smoke. In fact it was a little warmer today and I had little to no smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe. Anyway I'll check the plugs and see what they meant by a little white.

I did have the upper and lower intakes done a year ago. So if it is those again I'd be really ticked at the garage because it was them that did it. This leak started within the year it was done. Did you inquire about any warranty before, or after the work was complete? Most shops offer a 90-day warranty on repair labor, & manufacture warranty on the parts, so either way, labor would not be covered at this point. See if you have any written warranty period stipulated on your invoice. (Verbal warranties are not worth anything!) BTW, considering your engine has never overheated, or lacked proper coolant protection, I agree with Don (Jrs3800) and I find it hard to believe you have a blown head gasket. Of course, anything is possible!
As for the Dye test, I called a few places and no one seems to do it. The places I called were fairly major garages. It seems like a great test but so far I haven't found anyone that does it. I'll check the plugs tomorrow.You could buy the dye test kit at NAPA for about 50-bucks, but in lieu of the dye test, you could do a leak-down test and watch for the presence of air bubbles in the radiator. This test will tell you if you have a leak between the combustion chamber & cooling system.
I'm starting to wonder if the garage might be trying to not get caught up in a warranty issue with my upper and lower manifold gaskets. But wouldn't the coolant go in my oil if that were the case? My oil looks clean. and the level of oil on the dipstick is where it should be. If I had a coolant leak at the manifold wouldn't I see it in my oil???Not necessarily, you could have a leak between the intake port & water jacket port. Remember, one side has pressure and the other side has vacuum, so if the intake was not properly torqued, that could be a possibility. In addition, if the leak were in this area, it could only be sucked into the intake port and not leak into the crankcase.
The exhaust doesn't have any excessive white smoke. In fact it was a little warmer today and I had little to no smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe. Anyway I'll check the plugs and see what they meant by a little white.In your climate, smoke from the exhaust pipe would be very common most of the time, unless the car has been driven some distance and the engine & exhaust reach full operating temp. Even then, a lot depends on the humidity. If you can, post some good pics of the plugs for us to view. If you need instructions on how to do this, let us know.

Well i was thinking of working on this engine but I realized one important thing. I'm lazy. Soooo, I think I'm finished with LeSabres. I'm going to trade it in and buy a La Cross, I might go Lucerne. Not sure yet.

I have really enjoyed the Le Sabre forum but now I'm moving to the other car forum.

I'm sure I'll see many of you over there in the future.

Hello,

Your problem may well be a leaking upper intake manifold; we have a '97 LeSabre where we lost antifreeze on a regular basis. The upper intake manifold is plastic; the place where the exhaust gas recirculation comes in has a small metal tube (that gets very hot) into the plastic manifold. Early designs had this hot tube fitting tightly into the plastic. With time, the heat erodes the plastic and antifreeze starts to leak slowly into the intake. When I removed the plastic UIM (upper intake manifold), the lower aluminum portion going into the heads had cavities where the antifreeze had collected; obviously here was the result of the leak.

The replacement that I used had a different design with a smaller metal tube for the exh gas and other provisions to prevent this fault. I cleaned up the intake area, replaced with a new UIM, and the antifreeze loss quit.

I do not know the history of the 2001 UIM but this may be the problem.

Regards,
Jack C.