Lets put our heads together for this one...

Can anyone narrow these down anymore?

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj65/tifosichris/hmm.jpg

Was this pic, from the GTR launch party?

Yessir

GTR party was around mid January 95.

So all chassis up to 029, plus possible no,s 031,033,038

Hope this helps.

Thanks. I didn't have the date offhand

Which one of those is Ray Bellm,s road F1?

Can anyone narrow these down anymore?

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj65/tifosichris/hmm.jpg

I'll go with Clinic Model or #014, #003, #007, #028, #025, #011, #017 and #016.

Yes Regis, that's my final answer. :grinyes:

Actually, from my answer the #003 car could be XP5, the #025 car could be #022 and would make sense since certainly Thomas Bscher would have been in attendance, and then the #016 car would be #025. England is a lot closer than Germany or Japan, so #016 not being there does make more sense.

The real shame is that there aren't a bunch of these photos.

>8^)
ER

#014, #003, #024 (Bellm's?....), #021, #022 (Bschers....), #015, #017 and finally #018

Bschers and Bellm's should be there as they were amongst the owners who wanted Mclaren to make the GTR's

#024's original owner was Paul Burdell.

I'm not aware that Bellm owned an F1 road car. Anyone else have detail on that?

Also, it appears there could be one more F1 on the far end, just past the yellow one. Maybe another candidate for XP5 or #003?

By the way - how great is it that there is not one single Silver F1 in that shot, and we still can't be 100% certain of exactly which F1s those are. :lol2:

>8^)
ER

I thought it was [fairly] common knowledge that Bellm was one of the F1 roadcar owners that wanted Mclaren to make the F1 into a race car?

Guys, you make the forum on fire these days !

Bravo, this shot is incredible and 15 years ago too :) imagine that day.

Phil

From the Le Mans edition of DA

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/hurstg01/LeMansDAGTRsectionLarge.jpg

I thought it was [fairly] common knowledge that Bellm was one of the F1 roadcar owners that wanted Mclaren to make the F1 into a race car?[/URL]

I don't know about Bellm owning a road car but as Bscher wanted to buy the racer Ron Dennis persuaded him to buy also the road car which he did a bit reluctantly, as you can read from this German article I have had in the folder for 022.

[URL=http://www.imagebam.com/image/eba65f64275688]http://thumbnails28.imagebam.com/6428/eba65f64275688.gif (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=906984)

(Click to enlarge)

I thought it was [fairly] common knowledge that Bellm was one of the F1 roadcar owners that wanted Mclaren to make the F1 into a race car?

I have never heard mention of any road car chassis numbers that relate to Ray Bellm. That being said, Nye does make this comment in DA - page 192:

"There was still no racing intent at Woking, until pharmaceuticals magnate Ray Bellm - multiple Group C2 World Endurance Champion Driver with Spice cars - and enthusiastic German banker Thomas Bscher both ordered McLaren F1s and began pressing McLaren Cars for a racing version."

Maybe Bellm never took delivery of a road car? Instead, perhaps his car was due to be chassis #026 which became his GTR #02R? Just speculation here.

>8^)
ER

EDIT: LOL - beaten to the details with a photo. :)

I may be helping or hindering here!!

What I should have stated above, was all 94 year build chassis #, not up to 029.

You can discount 028, it was not finished then.

So the red car is 021 Blood red solid, Looks similar shade to GTR 10R

I was informed, by a very reliable source that Ray Bellms road car was dark in colour, that narrows it down a bit :)

Do we know who owned M1 MAC?

'M1 MAC' was #024, and as mentioned was originally owned by Paul Burdell.

>8^)
ER

I'm sure I'e seen this photo in the dim and distant past with a reference that George Harrison's F1 was in the line-up ... ???

'M1 MAC' was #024, and as mentioned was originally owned by Paul Burdell.

>8^)
ER
When was it confirmed 024 was the M1 MAC car?

When was it confirmed 024 was the M1 MAC car?

Try here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=906984) ;)

Oh wow. I completely forgot. Thanks!


I even posted in there :banghead:

I have read the posts with interest. The photo outside Genesis Pk woking was taken at the launch of the F1GTR LM of which only 6 were made, David Morrison, Mclaren, £ to Sultan of Brunei - Jefri, and one to a German. I tested the car at Donington in its early days. One is still at MTC and has been promised to Lewis if he wins 3 world Champs.
The road cars outside were owners cars. I had chassis 46 - was my 46th birthday, and chassis 24 was Paul Burdell's who had MI MAC reg and still has. I have a list somewhere with all the original owners. I sold chassis 46 to a guy in Sussex who sold to Juan Barrazzi who still owns it. The other cars i have owned are chassis 002R, 012R, 024R - loaned to me by Mclaren, 016R. i adapted 002R and 012R and 016R to road use as well.

Welcome to the forum bprchamp! :) I read your post with quite a bit of interest myself. :thumbsup:

It seems your initials might just be 'RB' if I am allowed a guess. If that guess is correct, I'm quite proud to have you here. If wrong, then I am rather intrigued, and still pleased to have your participation and insight from those early years, before even I was completely tuned into the world of the F1.

I usually try not to correct anyone with such vast first-hand knowledge, but this portion of your comment requires an update:

chassis 24 was Paul Burdell's who had MI MAC reg and still has.

Unless you were simply implying he still has the reg plate, Mr Burdell's F1 #024 is now in the USA, repainted silver and the interior redone in red leather, fitted to the spec of an F1 GT - the longtail road car. Here are some older photos of its present condition:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20B/th_100_0279.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20B/100_0279.jpg) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20B/th_100_0260.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20B/100_0260.jpg)

The car has been in the USA since roughly February 2002. At first it was owned by Jim Clark of Silicon Graphics/Netscape/Healtheon fame. In late 2005 the car was sold to a gentleman in New York who also owns chassis #045, and I believe he does still have both cars today.

I do hope you'll find time to look around a little further here, and perhaps share additional comments on some of our other topics if you feel there is something worth mentioning.

Thanks! :)

>8^)
ER

:wave: bprchamp

Welcome, and nice 1st post - what chassis # do you have now?

What a weekend this is turning out to be. Ray Bellm...... My goodness me, I can barely believe my good fortune over these past 2 days. Yesterday I 'met' Peloton25 for the first time, and today I get to 'meet' Ray Bellm... seriously, how many of these moments does one get in life? Right now, I feel like declaring the 22nd and 23rd of January every year an annual public holiday. Let's call it F1 Legends' Weekend, no?

Anyway Mr. Bellm, I must say that it's a great honour and pleasure to meet you, Sir. I have read quite extensively of your exploits with Team Gulf GTC Motorsport in the old BPR GT Championship with huge respect and awe, and I must congratulate you on winning the 1996 BPR GT Championship with #12R, as well as bringing #02R to a very accomplished 4th place finish at the 1995 24 Heures du Mans, and thereby adding your own contributions and mark to the F1 GTR's mighty history and legend.

As I'm trying to clear my mind of this sudden fog of awe and near-disbelief, a few choice questions come to mind. How did it feel to be racing alongside such greats as Lehto, Dalmas, Sekiya, the other drivers, and cars such as #01R and #06R at the 1995 Le Mans 24? Why did you take the decision to sell that F1 GTR, #02R, along with #12R that you took the 1996 BPR GT Championship win with, rather than retain them in your possession?

I have been keeping a 1:18th scale model of #12R in my collection for just over a year now, and all of a sudden I'm looking at it again with new-found awe and admiration. If we ever had a chance to meet in real life Sir, I would definitely politely ask you to autograph it. In closing, I would just like to welcome you again to the Forum and thank you for taking the time to participate and contribute your views and experiences to other F1 enthusiasts like myself, and also congratulate you once more on your many successes.

Alex Tang

I have read the posts with interest. The photo outside Genesis Pk woking was taken at the launch of the F1GTR LM of which only 6 were made, David Morrison, Mclaren, £ to Sultan of Brunei - Jefri, and one to a German. I tested the car at Donington in its early days. One is still at MTC and has been promised to Lewis if he wins 3 world Champs.
The road cars outside were owners cars. I had chassis 46 - was my 46th birthday, and chassis 24 was Paul Burdell's who had MI MAC reg and still has. I have a list somewhere with all the original owners. I sold chassis 46 to a guy in Sussex who sold to Juan Barrazzi who still owns it. The other cars i have owned are chassis 002R, 012R, 024R - loaned to me by Mclaren, 016R. i adapted 002R and 012R and 016R to road use as well.

http://smiliesftw.com/x/boweek.gif http://smiliesftw.com/x/boweek.gif http://smiliesftw.com/x/boweek.gif

Welcome to the forums!

I have read the posts with interest. The photo outside Genesis Pk woking was taken at the launch of the F1GTR LM of which only 6 were made, David Morrison, Mclaren, £ to Sultan of Brunei - Jefri, and one to a German. I tested the car at Donington in its early days. One is still at MTC and has been promised to Lewis if he wins 3 world Champs.
The road cars outside were owners cars. I had chassis 46 - was my 46th birthday, and chassis 24 was Paul Burdell's who had MI MAC reg and still has. I have a list somewhere with all the original owners. I sold chassis 46 to a guy in Sussex who sold to Juan Barrazzi who still owns it. The other cars i have owned are chassis 002R, 012R, 024R - loaned to me by Mclaren, 016R. i adapted 002R and 012R and 016R to road use as well.

Hi bprchamp,

Interesting information, since when did you have 24R?

Something does not sit quite right with me here, if you are the person you have implied yourself to be, please accept my appologes in advance. But to convince me entirely, could you please answer this question for me:-

Could you describe the inside and outside features of your workshop, ie what type of building and its location, etc. That you had when you ran your GTR,s. In particular, what happened like clockwork every day, just outside the workshop!!

I await your reply in anticipation.

I have read the posts with interest. The photo outside Genesis Pk woking was taken at the launch of the F1GTR LM of which only 6 were made, David Morrison, Mclaren, £ to Sultan of Brunei - Jefri, and one to a German. I tested the car at Donington in its early days. One is still at MTC and has been promised to Lewis if he wins 3 world Champs.
The road cars outside were owners cars. I had chassis 46 - was my 46th birthday, and chassis 24 was Paul Burdell's who had MI MAC reg and still has. I have a list somewhere with all the original owners. I sold chassis 46 to a guy in Sussex who sold to Juan Barrazzi who still owns it. The other cars i have owned are chassis 002R, 012R, 024R - loaned to me by Mclaren, 016R. i adapted 002R and 012R and 016R to road use as well.

so does that mean this wasnt the 'GTR party', but the F1 LM launch? and that it was in 1996? (wikipedia shows ray bellms birthday listed as 20 May 1950, so 46 would be 1996) :eek7: or have i got the wrong end of the stick? :runaround:

were all 6 F1 LM's present? and can you tell us more about the day :biggrin:

I too caught the #24R comment, where it should be #25R, but figured I had done enough correcting already in my original response.

I'd also like to explore his comment about one LM being originally sold to a German, because the information I have received is that LM3 is the only F1 to have ever changed hands, and that would have been David Morrison's. The odd LM out is the Japanese one then, and I am fairly certain it has always been in the ZAZ museum collection. If my understanding is wrong though, I'd be happy to learn a new piece to the story.

While I too am now very interested to hear what happened like clockwork everyday outside Ray's shop, I can assure those who are being skeptical that no one else could be posting from this new user's account besides RB based on the email address that was used to register it. :)

I only thought to look at that after I made my initial reply. Keep in mind this stuff occurred 13-14 years ago - and I am sure he's not thinking of it every day like most of us do. Could have even been a typo on his part? :dunno: So, please don't be too quick to judge here over any small mistakes - we can sort them out eventually with his continued participation if the forum (hopefully) captures his interest for a bit. :)

>8^)
ER

I had chassis 46.
A pic of it in its original colour would be great...

I have a list somewhere with all the original owners.
It would be awesome, if you can complete the first list in the following thread.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=913156

Thanks

I have read the posts with interest. The other cars i have owned are chassis 002R, 012R, 024R - loaned to me by Mclaren, 016R. i adapted 002R and 012R and 016R to road use as well.

Welcome to the Forums!!! :lol2:

I have to say;
It's huge honour to get one of the greatest names of GTR History on this specific Forum!

If you don't mind; I have couple of questions to you, hope you have time to answer these.

1. Who's idea it was to ask J.J Lehto those three events (Le Mans, Suzuka and Zhuhai) in 1996 BPR season where he shared the #12R with You and James Weaver?

2. Can you tell me more about history of #16R?
When it was road convereted, who's idea it was?
How many owners it had had to this today?
Anything new information related to #16R is very much wellcome.
This specific chassis has special meaning to me, seen that 1996 at Helsinki Motor Show where J.J Lehto was presententing it to the audience.

3. How high You rate the McLaren F1 GTR to compared all those others racing cars what You have been driven during Your career?

Hope You have time to aswer these some day at the future.
Once again, Great to have You here in this Forum!:cool:

-Sami-

Correct me if I,m wrong, the registration plate "M1 MAC" is now on a Range Rover :).

1. Who's idea it was to ask J.J Lehto those three events (Le Mans, Suzuka and Zhuhai) in 1996 BPR season where he shared the #12R with You and James Weaver?

Hey Sami-
I'm not the one who can assist with answering your question above, but I did find this great shot in my image collection of Ray, JJ and James Weaver celebrating together on the top step of the podium at Suzuka that year. Probably something you'll want if you do not already have it. :sunglasse

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20I/suzuka14.jpg

On the 3rd step of the podium are Andy Wallace and Olivier Grouillard from the Harrods/#06R team.

= = = = = =

Off topic for your question, but I also had this photo of Ray and James celebrating their victory on the podium at Nagaro from the same season. :cool:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20I/nogaro17.jpg

Perhaps it will interest someone who might be looking in? :)

>8^)
ER

:runaround:

Erik, you were perfectly right!
Never seen that shot ever!
Both images were Great! :lol2:
Thank You! :thumbsup:

Also, it appears there could be one more F1 on the far end, just past the yellow one.
Just to confirm that, I was expecting someone to post this, so here it is.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5783/llm.jpg

WOW! :yikes: Where'd that come from? :sunglasse

Made 1 1/2 times larger here:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20I/th_llm_LG.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20I/llm_LG.jpg)

Far end now looks like #003, Clinic Model, XP5 and then #007. Facing the other direction I see #028, #022, #011 and then out of frame in this second shot would be #017 and then (probably) #025, or perhaps less likely #016.

>8^)
ER

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5783/llm.jpg

:runaround:

Just to confirm that, I was expecting someone to post this, so here it is.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5783/llm.jpg

WOW! :yikes: Where'd that come from? :sunglasse
>8^)
ER

:runaround:

:1:

Fantastic - Where has that been hiding?

they should such a meeting again...