Car dies out

Tomorrow I will try that. Because this is PMO Im hating this car more and more its like I never had a problem with it and all of a sudden it just wants to act stupid. It has 216k on it and it ran perfect then all of a sudden this crap... UGH> but tomorrow I will see if I can get the voltage on the up streams and the down streams and see what they look like on voltage. Today it has been raining all day long and tomorrow I dont know what will happen they are calling for rain tomorrow too. So it will vary if I can get to it tomorrow.

The voltage on the Sensor 1 sensors should NOT remain around 0.6 volts, it should rapidly float between 0.1 and 0.9 volts. The average voltage will be around 0.45 v if the engine is running well. If you had working catalytic converters the Sensor 2 sensors would remain fairly steady at some voltage rather than switching rapidly. If the Sensor 1 sensors are not switching rapidly, they are slow to respond and likely due to be replaced. Since your converters are gutted, your Sensor 2 readings will likely look just like your Sensor 1 readings.

The Green/_____ wire to the oxygen sensor is the heater power wire. One brown/______ wire is the heater ground (switched by the PCM), the other wire of the same colors is the signal return to the PCM (essentially both are ground), and the white/_____ wire is the reference voltage from the PCM.

-Rod

Alright I have been taking my notes. Alright when in the past post I added I was talking about the scan tool picked up bank 1 lean. Which side is bank 1 someone told me that it is the left side of the motor standing in front of it which makes passenger side is this correct!? Which I'm going to check both sides just want to be certain that which side is which. Thanks Rod for clearing that up a bit. As soon as I get to it I can give ore info. Right now rain, soggy grounds, and 30-35 degrees not to good to be working on a car...

On an LS sold in the US, bank 1 is indeed the passenger side. On a V6 it's also the side that's difficult to work on.

-Rod

4-wire HO2 sensor signals -
Gnd
ECU signal wire for Air/fuel mix 14:1
Heater
Temp of Cat

Some Technicians use two wire O2 sensors, and like using CEL cheaters!

Was there ever a smoke, or compression test done?

The smoke test would of pin pointed any unmetered air leaks which could cause your lean code on bank1. The compression test would of told you, if the car was worth fix!

The thing is it will run fine for a little bit then it will act crazy as in idle rough and/or stall out. But you can cut the car off and start it back up and it runs fine like nothing happens then it will do the same things over again. So my guess is something that the computer is resetting, something electrical.

I don't know if it means anything or not but in the world of engine producers the right or left bank of an enging is from looking at the engine from the rear transmission face looking towards the front of the engine. Maybe Lincoln does it differently.

Have you attempted to duplicate your test from before with the one O2 sensor taken out? Seemed like it ran fine when it was out prior to the exhaust system being repaired.

As well have you disconnected the battery for a few minutes and make sure the PCM is totally deazd so when it starts back up it will recal to all of the current info being sent to it. It may still be working with past information from before the exhaust was repaired and over compensating.

Any unmetered air leaks from a bad PCV, EGR, and Intake system can cause a lean code, and the symptoms you are describing.
See Smoke Test, www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfiQ7qWiG-M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfiQ7qWiG-M)

I don't know where Danielsatur got his pinout, but it's not accurate. From the factory service manual, pin one is power to the heater, pin 2 is the switched ground for the heater, pin 3 is signal return, and pin 4 is the reference voltage for the oxygen sensor element. There is no temp sensor for the converter as part of the 4-wire heated oxygen sensor.

Along the lines of what CJ has suggested, how old is your battery? The electrical systems of these cars are VERY sensitive. An old battery, not even a weak battery, can cause goofy electrical issues.

-Rod

Check your AutoScan for the Catalytic converter Temps!

A blown, or gutted cat would have a lower temp.

Signals not pinouts, some stuff is just a secret for CEL cheat circuits.

I don't know where Danielsatur got his pinout, but it's not accurate. From the factory service manual, pin one is power to the heater, pin 2 is the switched ground for the heater, pin 3 is signal return, and pin 4 is the reference voltage for the oxygen sensor element. There is no temp sensor for the converter as part of the 4-wire heated oxygen sensor.

Along the lines of what CJ has suggested, how old is your battery? The electrical systems of these cars are VERY sensitive. An old battery, not even a weak battery, can cause goofy electrical issues.

-Rod


You know what I have been wondering about the battery we have had that battery for a while now. And I know its kinda weak because you can leave the car on for no more than 5 minutes without it running and try to start the car and the battery is dead or its drained so bad that the car sounds like it is struggling to start. So I'm gonna go buy a new battery tomorrow to see if anything helps. Hoprfully it will cause I need this car fixed.
Thanks Rod for the corrections on the 02 sensors.

A bad, or old battery is a very good way to burn up your Alternator!

A bad, or old battery is a very good way to burn up your Alternator!



I know that I started this thread for the intentions of getting help. But when you say something that someone else has said or something simple to the fact, its no help at all. I am mechanically inclined, but when it comes to this car there's not to many people that can work on the lincoln ls. I know that a bad battery can harm your alternator. I'm not trying to be mean or ugly or a ass as anyone can say. I'm just looking for clues hints help. Not something that someone said then someone else says the same in a different way. Any HELPFUL info would be greatfully appreciated in everyway. Thanks Rod and CJ for the helpful tips that u are giving me. I'm going to buy a new battery today to see if anything changes. Also where would I buy a fuel regulator for this car? The local parts store does not have one. So I would be looking to go to the dealer with this part wouldn't I?

I happen to have an unused Motorcraft fuel pressure sensor sitting in my garage that I bought for my wife's 2002 LS V6, but didn't need after I replaced the battery. I'm not sure if it's the same part number that your car would require. I picked it up from Fast Parts Network. The LS has a returnless fuel supply system so there is no regulator. Instead there is a fuel pressure sensor that mounts to the fuel rail which provides pressure information to the PCM to modulate the fuel pump duty cycle to maintain the appropriate fuel pressure at the rail.

-Rod

Why would four H02 sensors be bought, if cat's are gutted?
How much $ is thrown @ this project, because KBB Trade-in value without cats is below $1500.

I need to know which cylinder is number 4 on a 04 Lincoln LS V6?

Tran
3 6
2 5
1 4
Fan

Check COP spark plug boot for oil, or a rust residue!
Either oil, or water can contaminate the COP ,the ignition signal will misfire.
Save $500, use CRC electronic cleaner to clean contaminated COP's.

Why would four H02 sensors be bought, if cat's are gutted?
How much $ is thrown @ this project, because KBB Trade-in value without cats is below $1500.

PROJECT? Its called maintenence and up keep and fixing. I'm not worried about what the value of KBB is because I don't plan on getting rid of it. Its my car its bought paid for I have the title. I have had this car for almost 10 years this was one of my first cars and I plan on keeping it I didn't start a thread to get mark downs on my car. And by the way how would you know that the KBB value on my car without cats is 1500 it doesn't have a specific detail in there that says without cats mark here. Like I said I didn't start this thread to get mark downs on my car, value on my car, or even how shitty my car is. I started this one to get HELP to pin point my problem to see if I could get my car fixed. And if you must know, I have spent a lot of money in this car. You figure new coils at 72 a piece. (430) new plugs at 6 a piece (36) new MAF sensor (148) new borla mufflers (800) with packs new exhaust manifold studs to connect the down pipe (150) including labor new fuel pump (212) new jet pump (188) new fuel filter (18) new battery (128) its pretty costy but its my car my money. I felt that it needed to be done to my car so I went ahead and done it anyway. But this is not my project. Not to mention I just bought a remote start for it and some new rims 180 for the remote start and 2200 for the new 22s with tires.

Alright bought a new battery helped some but not much... Use to when you start the car it would take 10-15 seconds and it would idle rough and just cut off now it will idle fine for as long as the car is running. 20 30 45 hours doesn't matter it idles fine perfect. But now when you get in the car and put it in drive the car will drive fine for 2 minutes at the most and the engine slowly loses power and it will get so weak that it just cuts off. But u can put it in drive and let the car roll it will move and roll out fine until you smash the gas then its back to the same ol thing can drive it back to the house put it in park and it will sit there and idle like there's nothing wrong in the world. I have done my tune up completely. Everything except for the 02 sensors. EGR valve. Little things. Everything that I have replaced for new is listed. Everything is new not remanufacted. I'm looking into buying new 02 sensors, but need help on which ones to buy all 4 or just the 2 up streams? Well since the catalytic converters are gutted I have new catalytic converters on the way that I bought off line magnaflow cats. Besides that if the cats are gutted would I change all 4, the 2 upstreams, or the 2 downstreams? Thanks again Rod for you help in the past.

If you're putting new converters on, you may as well replace all 4 O2 sensors. It won't hurt anything, and if anything will improve the fuel economy just enough that they'll pay for themselves over the next several years. I'm not real sure they will fix the lack of power.

I'm not clear what happens, maybe you left out a sentence. After two minutes of driving the car will lose power and eventually stall? Then you mention that you can put it in drive and it will roll out. Is it already in drive when it stalls after 2 minutes? Did you maybe leave out that you can restart it immediately after it stalls and it will be fine until you get aggressive with the accelerator? Without having a scan tool to watch the datastream parameters this one will be tricky to diagnose.

-Rod

Sorry using my phone. But what I was saying was the battery helped in some areas but not the main. You can start the car and let it idle forever and it will idle perfect. My rev limit is 3500 you can hold the gas to the floor and it will jump to the 3500 without hesitation. But as soon as you get in the car put it in drive and take off 2 minutes in the car will gradually lose its power. So low that it will shut off if you are holding the gas, let off the gas and it will coast at idle fine. Only problem I'm having now is seems like its not getting the gas that it needs to run fully into it. But you can cut the car off and on 2 or 3 times and its fine for that 2 minutes again. Then back to the same situation. I don't know what's wrong with it at this point cause I have changed just about everything possible to change within the ignition, fuel, and air. Not unless its a hidden air leak or a clogged air hose. Or bad jet pump or bad 02 sensors. But in this case you said that you doubt that its going to fix my lack of power problem. Something has got to give break loose or something. The car has never been mistreated. Changed oil on a regular. Have changed everything recently. Lost

Sadly I'm lost too. Is it like a switch is thrown approximately 2 minutes into the drive, or might there be a gradual power reduction that gets really bad after about 2 minutes? Based on the expense of parts, it might be money well spent to get a nice (~$300) scan tool with a datastream mode so you can see what the various sensors are reporting when this car runs well versus when it's acting up.

-Rod

Todays Auto electronics have both analog + digital signals, they need tobe right for metering Air, fuel, and H20 feedback ,so the ECU can control this fossil burner.

What Elements to you need for a good burning Fire?
Air, fuel, ignition, and exhaust.

Test's are very important during the troubleshooting practice, because one bad test done, or skipped can derail any Auto Dr.
Don't assume all new parts are good.

Tests:
Compression
Air - Unmetered Air (smoke) , MAF/ACT sensor, air filter (min $)
Fuel - fuel pressure, Tps (min $)
Igniion - Spark, Cop test (min $)
Exhaust - back pressure test (free)
Battery + Alternator Load test. (free)


If all test's passed, have your ECU tested, it might not beable to control your powertrain, and latch onto any codes,
www.ECUdoctors.com (http://www.ECUdoctors.com) $50
I would consider buying a spare from a Salvage yard, the ECU Dr. might hold yours for ransom + charge $900

Also see www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=893556 (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=893556)

Thanks Rod for all your help I have not found the problem and I dont wish to look into it anymore. I broke down and sent it to the shop. UGH.... I dont even wanna know what its going to cost when I get back around to getting it. Dollar signs is all I'm going to be counting when I go to sleep maybe not hopefully it wont be that much. But then again it could be as high as a new car. Sadly. But thanks for all the advice that you giving me in the past and I will keep you updated on what I will find out from the shop. I took it to a Jaguar dealer. They said they will look into the problem look deeper and fix it. Hopefully it will be done soon. Missing my car alot. I will keep an update on the situation. Thanks again

Good luck, and please do update this thread with what the shop finds.

-Rod

HELLO TO ALL THAT HAS BEEN FOLLOWING UP ON THIS THREAD. I HAVE GOOD NEWS AND BAD NEWS.
Bad news it cost a small fortune but no worries its paid for...
Good news it is running to standards now everything is working perfectly.
Alright down to the news about what was going on. Took it to the shop. Left it. They analyzed the situation at ACC (on the ignition) nothing. But then (ROD) they drove the car down the road with the DATASTREAM on it come back as fuel pump and filter. At running speeds (standards) it was running close to 40 lbs of fuel then it dropped to 13 lbs. Even though I had bought a brand new fuel pump and fuel filter I was stumbled my self. Well I changed the fuel pump on the passenger side which the LS has 2 fuel pumps which I knew that. The one on the driver side worked but not up to par. As it would be called the Jet pump. Well I still have the Jet pump that was originally in it. And man ol man was it nasty nasty. The built in filter on it was so worn out it had eat the filter almost completely gone the pump was working but would get stopped up. It had some gunky black type of deal inside the pump. So that was the whole problem. The jet pump. Thanks for everybody's help and support.
Mr. Rod it looks like it was the Jet pump after all remember in the past post I was asking about Jet pump before? :) No worries its fixed and paid for. Thanks Rod

Wow, that is interesting! Thank you for the follow-up post, no doubt this will help someone out in the future.

-Rod